Subject: WTC, OBL, bombing Afganistan- an Afghani's viewpoint

From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Tue, Sep 18, 2001 5:40 PM
Message-ID: <180920011740574334%stang@subgenius.com>

In article <OvAp7.1344$k14.483503@news.uswest.net>, whyaskwhybot
<blackout@404infomagic.com> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Orrin Iseminger" <oiseming@moscow.com>
> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:50 AM
> Subject: OT: WTC, OBL, bombing Afganistan
>
SNIPIP)
> > Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through
> > Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan
> > would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You
> > see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and
> > the West.
> >
> > And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he
> > wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's
> > all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It
> > might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world
> > into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west
> > wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with
> > nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of
> > view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever
> > that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would
> > die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden
> > does. Anyone else?

This is what scares the fuck out of me, too. So we kick a bunch of ass
and find our own strapped to an even bigger powder keg than we're
already sitting on. There is no course of action (or inaction) that
doesn't appear to lead to far more disaster. All the more reason to
proceed with extreme caution along with all the extreme prejudice. I
totally sympathize with all the people who are so angry they want to
just nuke everything, and with all the people who are scared shitless
that we'll end up "nuking" ourselves.

Because of the power of God in some circles, there is no logical
answer. We really might as well declare War on God. About as much will
probably get accomplished. And yet we certainly cannot just sit on our
asses and say, "Well, at least it was only a few thousand that got
killed hideously this time." The fuckers probably won't quit until they
either get rubbed out one by one, which is an ongoing process that
might well never end, or until they start World War 3, just as the
essayest said.

Incidentally, I could find NOTHING in the mainstream press (on the web)
that tied Bin laden to the CIA *directly.* So I took down that graphic
I had up front on SuBSITE about bin Laden being a CIA operative from
1979-89. All I can deduce is that he was helping the Afghanis fight the
Russians during that time. Of course, we were too. That's not
necessarily the same as "operative" and besides, it's not up to an
avowed know-nothing like me to research this shit. But if somebody can
point me to a URL that has deeper info, I would appreciate it. LeMur
bailed (-- OR WAS SILENCED ?!?!?!? --) before telling us what he
knew... unless I missed a post.

No doubt my search engine does not include the uncensored sites. I'm
not a conspiracy nut who believes everything that appeals to my
particular bias. I'm a conspiracy nut who disbelieves EVERYTHING
because, as "Hippie" said in THE ABYSS, "But... everything IS a
conspiracy!"

Nonetheless I was curious as to whether this was just your standard
armchair radical yabbering of stuff that's old news and household
knowledge to "Intelligence" enthusiasts, or just implications, or
whether the Bush League of Emperors is making a last stand for World
Dictatorship against the Mystic Mullahs, or what.

"I'll give up my freedom of religion, if I can DESTROY THEIRS!" -- Dr.
Legume on ESO Swamp Radio

--
4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected
P.O. Box 181417, Cleveland, OH 44118 (fax 216-320-9528)
A subsidiary of:
The SubGenius Foundation, Inc. / P.O. Box 140306, Dallas, TX 75214
SubSITE: http://www.subgenius.com PRABOB
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: WTC, OBL, bombing Afganistan- an Afghani's viewpoint
From: nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Reply-To: like.excess@sex.org
Date: Tue, Sep 18, 2001 6:22 PM
Message-ID: <3BA7C944.F4A@succeeds.com>

Rev. Ivan Stang wrote:
>
> Incidentally, I could find NOTHING in the mainstream
> press (on the web) that tied Bin laden to the CIA
> *directly.*

By request, I provided a TON of web info to Pope Black
on Bin Laden and G. Bush. By now he has prolly sorted
a goodly amount of info.

Me, I know nothing. Nothing!

--
"Nature abhors a peasant. You will soon see
a violent demonstration of this fact."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: WTC, OBL, bombing Afganistan- an Afghani's viewpoint
From: joecosby@mindspring.com (Joe Cosby)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Tue, Sep 18, 2001 7:34 PM
Message-ID: <3ba7d8e6.21539284@News.CIS.DFN.DE>

nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com> hunched over a computer, typing
feverishly;
thunder crashed, nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com> laughed madly, then
wrote:

>Rev. Ivan Stang wrote:
>>
>> Incidentally, I could find NOTHING in the mainstream
>> press (on the web) that tied Bin laden to the CIA
>> *directly.*
>
>By request, I provided a TON of web info to Pope Black
>on Bin Laden and G. Bush. By now he has prolly sorted
>a goodly amount of info.
>
>Me, I know nothing. Nothing!

Could somebody who doesn't know nothing forward any of that to me?

I'm just curious. Not that I would understand any of it. hi dcs1000.
We're all just members of this wacky religion, that's all. zany bunch
of guys. buncha knuckleheads.

--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.home.mindspring.com

Law is a collection of social bargains. We trade the freedom to enter the homes of
other people for the right to deny unwanted intruders access to our homes. We trade
the freedom to kill anyone we wish for the assurance that we ourselves will not be
murdered. Anyone who chooses to set aside the restrictions of law in so doing
absolves him or herself of its protections as well. If an armed intruder breaks into your
home, it's reasonable to assume that they do so wearing a target.

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.98d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe Cosby wrote:
>
> Could somebody who doesn't know nothing
> forward any of that to me?
>
> I'm just curious.

I'll give you one link.

Ask Pope Black for more.

http://www.geocities.com/burningbush2000/3.html

--
"Nature abhors a peasant. You will soon see
a violent demonstration of this fact."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: WTC, OBL, bombing Afganistan- an Afghani's viewpoint
From: joecosby@mindspring.com (Joe Cosby)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Tue, Sep 18, 2001 10:56 PM
Message-ID: <3ba8077b.1742000@News.CIS.DFN.DE>

"Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com> hunched over a computer,
typing feverishly;
thunder crashed, "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com> laughed
madly, then wrote:

>Incidentally, I could find NOTHING in the mainstream press (on the web)
>that tied Bin laden to the CIA *directly.* So I took down that graphic
>I had up front on SuBSITE about bin Laden being a CIA operative from
>1979-89. All I can deduce is that he was helping the Afghanis fight the
>Russians during that time. Of course, we were too. That's not
>necessarily the same as "operative" and besides, it's not up to an
>avowed know-nothing like me to research this shit. But if somebody can
>point me to a URL that has deeper info, I would appreciate it. LeMur
>bailed (-- OR WAS SILENCED ?!?!?!? --) before telling us what he
>knew... unless I missed a post.
>
>No doubt my search engine does not include the uncensored sites. I'm
>not a conspiracy nut who believes everything that appeals to my
>particular bias. I'm a conspiracy nut who disbelieves EVERYTHING
>because, as "Hippie" said in THE ABYSS, "But... everything IS a
>conspiracy!"
>
>Nonetheless I was curious as to whether this was just your standard
>armchair radical yabbering of stuff that's old news and household
>knowledge to "Intelligence" enthusiasts, or just implications, or
>whether the Bush League of Emperors is making a last stand for World
>Dictatorship against the Mystic Mullahs, or what.
>

Well I don't know about a conspiracy ... I don't know about the
mainstream press either though ...

Two things are certain though.

1. bin Laden was fighting against the Russians as part of a movement
which was, overall, funded trained and supported by the CIA.

This is known, open knowledge. It doesn't necessarily imply a warm
cosy relationship (although somebody else posted a link which takes it
further), but there was definitely that much of a relation, bin Laden
was part of an army being supported by the CIA.

2. The mainstream press have not mentioned this.

Which isn't necessarily to say the mainstream press are part of a
conspiracy, but they are definitely, consciously, omitting mention of
this.

Probably, as much as anything else, out of business interest.

If they report anything which could be construed as sympathetic to
terrorists, or anti-American, in today's climate it would just hammer
their customer base.

Which is what the information war is all about.

That article by the Iranian film maker being another good example.

Why doesn't the world know what has been going on in Afghanistan?

The real reason, the real heart of it, is just that you can't expect
to run stories about starvation on your news program on a regular
basis when you're getting backed by Budweiser beer and Burger King.

Just think about it:

"Now, here's our weekly 15 minutes of footage of people starving to
death in the streets of Afghanistan"

(show film)

(cut to commercial for Domino's pizza).

***

IMO, we have seen the real conspirators already. And they is us.

That and the Masonic death's head aliens.

--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.home.mindspring.com

Doing my part to piss off the Christian Right

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.98d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: WTC, OBL, bombing Afganistan- an Afghani's viewpoint
From: UnitCLXXX@SputSouth.Com (RevEl)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Wed, Sep 19, 2001 7:06 AM
Message-ID: <f1vgqtgu0kqmvr3rbdh3hlfoc1vf61kn22@4ax.com>

On Tue, 18 Sep 2001 17:40:57 -0400, "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>
wrote, in alt.slack:

>Incidentally, I could find NOTHING in the mainstream press (on the web)
>that tied Bin laden to the CIA *directly.*

You aren't reading the overseas press, are you? Really should.
One gets a much broader view of things, and sometimes clearer.
(not that international media is always better, but it IS different)

I highly recommend the BBC online news. The low-graphics front
page is here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/text_only.stm
If you prefer full graphics, just click the "High Graphics" button.
I like the BBC for several reasons, one of them being that they
are a lot more low-keyed in their reporting. They also provide
additional information links, when available, to non-BBC sites.

There was an article last week:
Who is Osama Bin Laden

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/south_asia/newsid_155000/155236.stm

Quote from there:

"He received security training from the CIA itself, according to Middle
Eastern analyst Hazhir Teimourian."

>So I took down that graphic
>I had up front on SuBSITE about bin Laden being a CIA operative from
>1979-89. All I can deduce is that he was helping the Afghanis fight the
>Russians during that time. Of course, we were too. That's not
>necessarily the same as "operative" and besides, it's not up to an
>avowed know-nothing like me to research this shit. But if somebody can
>point me to a URL that has deeper info, I would appreciate it. LeMur
>bailed (-- OR WAS SILENCED ?!?!?!? --) before telling us what he
>knew... unless I missed a post.

Check the other links leading from that story above. I haven't
myself, but there might be something pertinent there.

I noticed one on his command structure that might be interesting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/americas/newsid_1544000/1544534.stm

And an couple of offsite links, including:
http://msanews.mynet.net/Scholars/Laden/

>No doubt my search engine does not include the uncensored sites. I'm
>not a conspiracy nut who believes everything that appeals to my
>particular bias. I'm a conspiracy nut who disbelieves EVERYTHING
>because, as "Hippie" said in THE ABYSS, "But... everything IS a
>conspiracy!"
>
>Nonetheless I was curious as to whether this was just your standard
>armchair radical yabbering of stuff that's old news and household
>knowledge to "Intelligence" enthusiasts, or just implications, or
>whether the Bush League of Emperors is making a last stand for World
>Dictatorship against the Mystic Mullahs, or what.
>
>"I'll give up my freedom of religion, if I can DESTROY THEIRS!" -- Dr.
>Legume on ESO Swamp Radio
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: WTC, OBL, bombing Afganistan- an Afghani's viewpoint
From: Lilith von Fraumench <lilith@ZubJenius.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Sep 20, 2001 11:32 AM
Message-ID: <200920010832212948%lilith@ZubJenius.com>

In article <3ba8077b.1742000@News.CIS.DFN.DE>, Joe Cosby
<joecosby@mindspring.com> wrote:

> 1. bin Laden was fighting against the Russians as part of a movement
> which was, overall, funded trained and supported by the CIA.
>
> This is known, open knowledge. It doesn't necessarily imply a warm
> cosy relationship (although somebody else posted a link which takes it
> further), but there was definitely that much of a relation, bin Laden
> was part of an army being supported by the CIA.

Er. There were two factions of Mujahadeen. One was CIA funded. Bin
Laden, having a small fortune and the ability to attract others with
small fortunes to his causes, ran the other. During the Soviet
invasion, they did fight for the same cause but remained seperate. It
was a similar situation as the two factions of Contras fighting to
liberate Nicauragua.

> 2. The mainstream press have not mentioned this.
>
> Which isn't necessarily to say the mainstream press are part of a
> conspiracy, but they are definitely, consciously, omitting mention of
> this.

Er. I've read more than one editorial which explains the link
thoroughly. And the link only comes indirectly, having been distorted
beyond recognition.

Just sayin'.

Her Ladyship Lilith

--
=====Her Ladyship Rev Dkr St Popess Lilith von Fraumench, Esquire=====
===Prophet===Corrective Phrenologist===Supreme Commandrix===Devivor===
==SSUCC 4739 University Way NE #1302 Seattle WA 98105 (877)=381-9354==
====Web: ssucc.ragnarokr.com = foolspress.com = mp3.com/foolspress====

Back to document index

Original file name: Re- WTC, OBL, bombing Afganista - converted on Monday, 24 September 2001, 21:28