Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven

From: hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Apr 22, 1999 1

There are a noticeably larger number of cats in my neighborhood than there
used to be. Not a deluge, but closer to a typical group, I think. I'm afraid
I know why, too.

There was a rather volatile family living on the hill just above our house,
one with an older kid who seemed to specialize in being a low-grade
ringleader for a group of younger boys. It was much more than typically
noisy at that time; there were many more vigorous arguments to be heard and
the debris from same a great deal more evident. He kicked in the front door
to his house one fine Saturday and his mother was heard to remark more than
once "you just stay outside for a while." He once tried to convince another
boy that it would be cool to roll down the hill in a garbage can, directly
into a rather treacherous intersection. The other boy wisely observed "No,
that's how kids get killed." He was laughed at, of course.

This precious flower of young manhood was once heard to remark that "when
I grow up, I'm gonna be a serial killer!" I suppose everyone needs a goal.
The clencher was hearing him say "let's find us another cat!" You don't have
to be Stephen Hawking to make THAT connection.

So. Another school massacre by ostracized students. I wonder how many more
of them will occur before they begin to seem commonplace, getting less news
coverage, dropping to page 2 status within the first week instead of being
copiously analyzed until you'd think all other activity in the world had
ceased. With every such event, the instigators get better at their craft,
apparently drawing something dark and frightening from the previous members
of this egregious club. Perhaps they are emboldened by the "success" of their
predecessors. "Don't pick on the nerds, Tommy, they might kill you." After
learning that the Colorado bunch had 30 pipe bombs on hand, I expected to
see a crew down the line wire a whole school for a really big splash, only to
hear that these psychotic little wankers already had THAT in the offing as
well. Yeesh!

The handwriting on the wall predicts that the outrage will lead to more
metal detectors, more guards, more locker searches and the like. We'll also
see that the expense of these things will lead to a backlash in the form of
complaints about the related tax hikes and the assault on civil rights the
protective measures represent. Hell of a start in life, isn't it? In order to
prevent your classmates from blowing you away, open up that backpack and
drop trou before you go to civics class. Crazy world, ain't it?

I think we're going to be seeing more of these incidents. I believe the
media and the Internet will be blamed for much of it because they do have the
potential for inflaming things, but the real point is consistently missed
when any kind of violence erupts and that is, where was its actual genesis?
Where WERE Mom & Dad when the groundwork for these horrors was being laid?
Why is it that the adults nearest the purveyors of these events always seem
so shocked?

It may be easy to point fingers at them for their seeming malfeasance, but
being a parent is one hell of a hard job. We're so beleagured with demands on
our time and attention, it takes an unreasonably heroic effort just to keep
up with the laundry, so overcoming that traditional teenaged sullenness takes
a backseat more often than parents might really like. I basically respect my
country, but I can also see that our early determination to be independent
has led to such personal isolation that everyone is paying a crushing price
for it in the form of loneliness, acquisitive frenzy and crime that makes
even hardened cops-of-the-line flinch.

My mother was no prize in some respects, but by God, she made a point of
reading to me and providing me with access to a copious number of books. It
makes an enormous one-two impression on children when you both take the time
to be with them in that manner and give them the sheer, delightful variety
that books offer at a time when they're eager as hell to soak up EVERYTHING
in sight. In addition, punishing them in a specific and focused manner when
they're small is vital. My wife refers to both as "getting your fix in early."
I'm not a parent, but I do know that even an impulsive creature such as a
child has an internal logic that can be addressed if only you can tune in to
it. (This doesn't work with conservatives, though.)
My friend Rosie once asked me if I thought it was abusive for her to spank
her intractable 3-year-old son. I laughed and said "Hey, that's what God made
the poochy little buttocks FOR! Unless you get his attention NOW, its all
over, 'cause you won't be able to spank him when he's a sulking 15-year-old
in a leather jacket that has 'Fuck Mom' stenciled across the back under the
name of his favorite thud band of the moment."
I grieve for the numerous victims of all school shootings, in the distant
way that we do here, at arms' length. I also grieve for what I believe to be
the cause of that, as well as the often hollowing adult relationships we
seem to have with one another in America. We've had to shed so much of our
humanity as ballast in the race to keep up with the Joneses that our kids are
falling by the wayside. I think the parents of one of the dead Colorado
shooters were working so hard to provide him with that BMW, they lost track
of him and forgot to teach him that killing his schoolmates, especially on
Hitler's birthday, wouldn't help his social status.
Notice a drop in the cat population of your neighborhood lately?

HellPope Huey, Radio Doktor, SynthMeister,'Righter
& Dobbster since 1981
"aS CrAzY aS yOu & tWiCe aS dAnGeRoUS wItHouT MeDiCaTioN"

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: "Curtis R. Anderson" <gleepy@intelligencia.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 12:47 AM
Message-ID: <37200967.AAFBD4C1@intelligencia.com>

hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> [fine comment deleted]

Which leads me to remind folks to think carefully before sticking dick
into pussy. You carry the responsibility for a very long time.
--
Curtis R. Anderson, Co-creator of "Gleepy the Hen", SP 2.5?, KoX
http://www.servtech.com/~cra/ | Western New York: as Canadian
ftp://ftp.servtech.com/pub/users/cra/ | as you can get in the States
mailto:gleepy@intelligencia.com | UTM: PS 7036 7315, zone 17
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: "Dr Digi A Doobie THC" <digi@stonernet.org>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 8:46 AM
Message-ID: <_Q_T2.2797$vk4.834252@news4.atl>

Beautiful

--
www.StonerNET.org
United we're stoned
Divided we're busted

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: temujin9@io.com (Reverend Imposter Eliot)

On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:39:16 GMT, hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> My friend Rosie once asked me if I thought it was abusive for her to spank
>her intractable 3-year-old son. I laughed and said "Hey, that's what God made
>the poochy little buttocks FOR! Unless you get his attention NOW, its all
>over, 'cause you won't be able to spank him when he's a sulking 15-year-old
>in a leather jacket that has 'Fuck Mom' stenciled across the back under the
>name of his favorite thud band of the moment."

Exactly the reason not to spank him; it leaves you no way to deal with
the child when he's 15. Being forced around all those years just makes
the child resent you (don't *you* resent controlling bosses, even if
they're right?) and makes them more likely to be rebellious as soon as
they think you can't or won't spank them in some way.

If raising children was that straightforward, there wouldn't be so
much agrement about how it should be done. How many people do you
hear arguing about how to start a car?

--
Nathaniel Eliot THE Reverend Imposter Eliot
temujin9@io.com (AUTOEXCOMMUNICATED)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Reply-To: like.excess@sex.org

hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>

(snipped annoyingly reasonable and intelligent arguments)

Isn't it just easier to come up with a scapegoat?

I say we blame it on the Teletubbies.

And then let's bring back hanging.

It always helps to hang the bad ones. In public.

I want to own the chili-cheese hotdog concession, there's good
money to be made selling chili-cheese dogs at public hangings.

And you can quote me on that. You'll probably just want
to use the second half of the sentence, though.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 10:13 PM
Message-ID: <7frcrs$4kn$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

In article <3723a01a.10036147@localhost>,
temujin9@io.com (Reverend Imposter Eliot) wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:39:16 GMT, hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>
> If raising children was that straightforward, there wouldn't be so
> much agrement about how it should be done. How many people do you
> hear arguing about how to start a car?
THE Reverend Imposter Eliot
temujin9@io.com

I don't entirely disagree with you; I just accept that each & every
child is a carnivorous little ID with a skin wrapped around it and part
of getting them to the point where you CAN use more effective &
desireable methods on 'em is GETTING THEIR ATTENTION.
People who make a habit of hitting their kids until both parties lose
track of the point should be sterilized, true. Once they've reached about
age 5 or so, max, you'd better find another way or you're falling into
just the unhealthy pit you describe. Still, there's a wide difference
between an instructional swat to the hiney and a roundhouse punch.
Child-rearing IS a crapshoot and you have to find your way anew with
each one. What works with one fails with the next one. That's part of the
"joy" of raising them. Unfortunately, too many never find the key at all.
Then again, some of us grow past our parents despite everything, which is
why Stang is rich today, BWAHAHAHAAA!!!!! PRABOB!!
Thanx fer the input.

HellPope Huey, Radio Doktor, SynthMeister,
'Righter, Frop-Tester, 1st-Class SexHurtMaster
& Dobbster since 1981
"aS CrAzY aS yOu & tWiCe aS dAnGeRoUS wItHouT MeDiCaTioN"

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Fri, Apr 23, 1999 10:21 PM
Message-ID: <7frdce$54b$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

In article <3720F5DD.15A52DDA@succeeds.com>,
like.excess@sex.org wrote:
> hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> (snipped annoyingly reasonable and intelligent arguments)

> Isn't it just easier to come up with a scapegoat?
> I say we blame it on the Teletubbies.
> And then let's bring back hanging.
> It always helps to hang the bad ones. In public.
> I want to own the chili-cheese hotdog concession, there's good
> money to be made selling chili-cheese dogs at public hangings.
> And you can quote me on that. You'll probably just want
> to use the second half of the sentence, though.

Hey, I'd be DELIGHTED to pull the switch on some of these fuckers who
stink up Death Row for decades! O'course, I got a lotta flak for my take
on the death penalty, but if we get Fox to televise a buncha guys dressed
in circus clown garb feeding some psychotic fuck into an arc furnace
feet-first, I'd be willin' to bet $20 and a stained "Bob" shirt that the
rate of crazed criminalty would begin to drop.
You'll never excise a certain amount of grotty human behavior from the
pool entirely, but it'd sure save us money on new prison construction if
we'd just bump off the true monsters and let the potheads out. Shit,
that'd probably save the state several mil a year on a right-now basis!
And that makes so much sense, it'll never happen. At least not until
enough rich bastards have terminally-ill relatives that can't keep THEIR
goddamned food down...
Failing that, let's dress each offender up AS a Teletubby and then STONE
them to death in the public square! DEATH TO DIPSY!!!!! AAIIEEEEEEE!!!!!

HellPope Huey, Radio Doktor, SynthMeister,
'Righter, Frop-Tester, 1st-Class SexHurtMaster
& Dobbster since 1981
"aS CrAzY aS yOu & tWiCe aS dAnGeRoUS wItHouT MeDiCaTioN"

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: temujin9@io.com (Reverend Imposter Eliot)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 3:14 AM
Message-ID: <3721785d.219019@localhost>

On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 03:13:03 GMT, hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>In article <3723a01a.10036147@localhost>,
> temujin9@io.com (Reverend Imposter Eliot) wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 04:39:16 GMT, hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>>
>> > My friend Rosie once asked me if I thought it was abusive for her to spank
>> >her intractable 3-year-old son. I laughed and said "Hey, that's what God made
>> >the poochy little buttocks FOR! Unless you get his attention NOW, its all
>> >over, 'cause you won't be able to spank him when he's a sulking 15-year-old
>> >in a leather jacket that has 'Fuck Mom' stenciled across the back under the
>> >name of his favorite thud band of the moment."
>>
>> Exactly the reason not to spank him; it leaves you no way to deal with
>> the child when he's 15. Being forced around all those years just makes
>> the child resent you (don't *you* resent controlling bosses, even if
>> they're right?) and makes them more likely to be rebellious as soon as
>> they think you can't or won't spank them in some way.
>
> I don't entirely disagree with you; I just accept that each & every
> child is a carnivorous little ID with a skin wrapped around it and part
> of getting them to the point where you CAN use more effective &
> desireable methods on 'em is GETTING THEIR ATTENTION.

Huey, I am going out on a limb here and guessing that you don't have
kids. Because trust me, getting their attention is *not* the problem.
I would prefer that my son paid less attention to me, so that I could
actually get stuff done around him.

> People who make a habit of hitting their kids until both parties lose
> track of the point should be sterilized, true. Once they've reached about
> age 5 or so, max, you'd better find another way or you're falling into
> just the unhealthy pit you describe. Still, there's a wide difference
> between an instructional swat to the hiney and a roundhouse punch.

True, and I have no problem with parent spanking kids to keep them
from doing something inherently and immediately dangerous. But in
most other circumstances it bugs me, because it strikes me as just so
much bullying, with a bit of good intention sprinkled on top for
flavor. Most parents I know aren't parents because they want to be,
but because they felt pressure to be in some way, so their motivation
is fitting in, not taking care of the child. YMMV.

--
Nathaniel Eliot THE Reverend Imposter Eliot
temujin9@io.com (AUTOEXCOMMUNICATED)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: "ICEKNIFE" <iceknife@lanminds.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 3:45 AM
Message-ID: <SwfU2.3680$qj7.184175@news14.ispnews.com>

hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7fothk$ule$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

FROM:
>when any kind of violence erupts and that is, where was its actual genesis?
>Where WERE Mom & Dad when the groundwork for these horrors was being laid?

TO:

> My friend Rosie once asked me if I thought it was abusive for her to
spank
>her intractable 3-year-old son. I laughed and said "Hey, that's what God
made
>the poochy little buttocks FOR! Unless you get his attention NOW, its all
>over, 'cause you won't be able to spank him when he's a sulking 15-year-old
>in a leather jacket that has 'Fuck Mom' stenciled across the back under the
>name of his favorite thud band of the moment."

There are many good books about training
animals by people who train criiters for film
work. Reading one or two might help you
make up your mind. Or you could just study
the correlations between beta endorphin
receptor sites and reactive memory response.
The power and complexity of human memory
don't lessen the effect, they increase it. The
earlier you teach them control of others through
violence, the stronger the impulse becomes to
imitate the behavior. Add an allergy to synthetic
beef hormones, or social isolation, or malnutrition,
and then all you need is a deluge of fictional
conflicts "solved" with violence, and WHEEEE!
Psychokiller stew!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: "König PreuBe, GmbH" <bbombere@erols.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 6:17 AM
Message-ID: <3721A849.CF7667F9@erols.com>

Reverend Imposter Eliot wrote:

> I have no problem with parent spanking kids to keep them
> from doing something inherently and immediately dangerous. But in
> most other circumstances it bugs me, because it strikes me as just so
> much bullying, with a bit of good intention sprinkled on top for
> flavor. Most parents I know aren't parents because they want to be,
> but because they felt pressure to be in some way, so their motivation
> is fitting in, not taking care of the child. YMMV.
>
> --
>

Parents should kill their children,
and collect the insurance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: AMA Zoroaster <revjack@radix.net>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 6:45 AM
Message-ID: <7fsasu$798$1@news1.Radix.Net>

Reverend Imposter Eliot explains it all:

:True, and I have no problem with parent spanking kids to keep them
:from doing something inherently and immediately dangerous. But in
:most other circumstances it bugs me, because it strikes me as just so
:much bullying, with a bit of good intention sprinkled on top for
:flavor.

Jack's Rambling Unsolicited Observations:

Kids learn by example more than anything. If you talk "peaceful conflict
resolution" at them AND spank them under the guise of "discipline"[1],
they'll know you're full of shit.

You learned a lot from the people who raised you. Some of it good, some of
it bad. It's hard not to pass the bad along; what you learned
instinctively and viscerally is far more deeply ingrained than any
philosophical or logical concepts thrown your way.

There's also things you *didn't* learn.

So much of child raising is about problem solving. Problems between you
and the child, and problems the child has with the rest of the world.

The Trenchcoat Gimps had problems they didn't know how to solve. Sure,
they *ended* them, but they didn't solve anything. Damned near everybody
has problems with cliques and identity in high school, the Coat Boys were
not unique. Unlike most people, though, they had no mechanisms for
proactively dealing with it. So they reacted, let their lizard brains run
things. William Golding is still relevant, you know.

Somehow, the Coat Kids never learned how to solve their problems.

I'll bet nobody ever taught them how to fail, either.

--
/~\ scrotum resonate satiric coney Mary bill kidnapping lingual bac
C oo pee divisor amalgam finch circulate sweetheart nob Chatham scap
_( ^) 1 , 0 0 0 , 0 0 0 m o n k e y s c a n ' t b e w r o n g
/___~\ http://www.radix.net/~revjack/mnj revjack@radix.net

[1] Punishment feels bad. Discipline feels good. Remember.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Reply-To: like.excess@sex.org
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 9:16 AM
Message-ID: <3721D224.6A06AC0@succeeds.com>

hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> In article <3720F5DD.15A52DDA@succeeds.com>,
> like.excess@sex.org wrote:
> > hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > (snipped annoyingly reasonable and intelligent arguments)
>
> > Isn't it just easier to come up with a scapegoat?
> > I say we blame it on the Teletubbies.
> > And then let's bring back hanging.
> > It always helps to hang the bad ones. In public.
> > I want to own the chili-cheese hotdog concession, there's good
> > money to be made selling chili-cheese dogs at public hangings.
> > And you can quote me on that. You'll probably just want
> > to use the second half of the sentence, though.
>
> Hey, I'd be DELIGHTED to pull the switch on some of these fuckers who
> stink up Death Row for decades! O'course, I got a lotta flak for my take
> on the death penalty, but if we get Fox to televise a buncha guys dressed
> in circus clown garb feeding some psychotic fuck into an arc furnace
> feet-first, I'd be willin' to bet $20 and a stained "Bob" shirt that the
> rate of crazed criminalty would begin to drop.
> You'll never excise a certain amount of grotty human behavior from the
> pool entirely, but it'd sure save us money on new prison construction if
> we'd just bump off the true monsters and let the potheads out. Shit,
> that'd probably save the state several mil a year on a right-now basis!
> And that makes so much sense, it'll never happen. At least not until
> enough rich bastards have terminally-ill relatives that can't keep THEIR
> goddamned food down...
> Failing that, let's dress each offender up AS a Teletubby and then STONE
> them to death in the public square! DEATH TO DIPSY!!!!! AAIIEEEEEEE!!!!!
>

Good to see you are getting over that brief bout with sensibility.
I had the flu recently, so I know what it was like.

But you got me thinking: why not dress up the death row inmates so they
look like clowns, or something really humiliating, like "Little Lord
Fauntelroy" clothes or Speedoz and garish wigs like Rocky Horror fans.

How about putting them in concrete, with just their faces exposed, until
they die of ickyness?

-------

"There's GOOD Money to be made selling chili-cheese dogs at public hangings!"
-- nu-monet

And remember, you can find only the best chili-cheese dogs at:

http://elohim.dogma.org/~phxclench/

----------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------

ICEKNIFE wrote:
>
> hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
> <7fothk$ule$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>
> FROM:
> >when any kind of violence erupts and that is, where was its actual genesis?
> >Where WERE Mom & Dad when the groundwork for these horrors was being laid?
>
> TO:
>
> > My friend Rosie once asked me if I thought it was abusive for her to
> spank
> >her intractable 3-year-old son. I laughed and said "Hey, that's what God
> made
> >the poochy little buttocks FOR! Unless you get his attention NOW, its all
> >over, 'cause you won't be able to spank him when he's a sulking 15-year-old
> >in a leather jacket that has 'Fuck Mom' stenciled across the back under the
> >name of his favorite thud band of the moment."
>
> There are many good books about training
> animals by people who train criiters for film
> work. Reading one or two might help you
> make up your mind. Or you could just study
> the correlations between beta endorphin
> receptor sites and reactive memory response.
> The power and complexity of human memory
> don't lessen the effect, they increase it. The
> earlier you teach them control of others through
> violence, the stronger the impulse becomes to
> imitate the behavior. Add an allergy to synthetic
> beef hormones, or social isolation, or malnutrition,
> and then all you need is a deluge of fictional
> conflicts "solved" with violence, and WHEEEE!
> Psychokiller stew!

Or just put gunpowder in their Alpo like for pitbulls.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 12:16 PM
Message-ID: <7fsua2$c0a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>

In article <3721D2A3.C69268E9@succeeds.com>,
like.excess@sex.org wrote:
> ICEKNIFE wrote:
> >
> > hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
> > <7fothk$ule$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> >
> > FROM:
> > >when any kind of violence erupts and that is, where was its actual genesis?
> > >Where WERE Mom & Dad when the groundwork for these horrors was being laid?
> >
> > TO:
> >
> > > My friend Rosie once asked me if I thought it was abusive for her to
> > spank
> > >her intractable 3-year-old son. I laughed and said "Hey, that's what God
> > made
> > >the poochy little buttocks FOR! Unless you get his attention NOW, its all
> > >over, 'cause you won't be able to spank him when he's a sulking 15-year-old
> > >in a leather jacket that has 'Fuck Mom' stenciled across the back under the
> > >name of his favorite thud band of the moment."
> >
> > There are many good books about training
> > animals by people who train criiters for film
> > work. Reading one or two might help you
> > make up your mind. Or you could just study
> > the correlations between beta endorphin
> > receptor sites and reactive memory response.
> > The power and complexity of human memory
> > don't lessen the effect, they increase it. The
> > earlier you teach them control of others through
> > violence, the stronger the impulse becomes to
> > imitate the behavior. Add an allergy to synthetic
> > beef hormones, or social isolation, or malnutrition,
> > and then all you need is a deluge of fictional
> > conflicts "solved" with violence, and WHEEEE!
> > Psychokiller stew!
>
> Or just put gunpowder in their Alpo like for pitbulls.

Sorry, y'all, but I still say that's a buncha "liberalistic" frippery.
I've seen kids who got a little swat while they were still utterly
unhousebroken tots and a couple whose parents thought ANY kind of
corporal attention was "abuse."
After a couple of DECADES, I've noted that the first set of offspring
are responsive and fairly well-focused, whereas the hands-off crowd is
more frazzed and beset by weird difficulties.
Sure, being hit is a towering insult WHEN YOU'RE OLDER, but in those
first few critical years, you have to establish that YOU are the parent
and THEY are the child. That's not just my big fat opinion, that's the
immutable biological imperative. Try letting a puppy do as it pleases
until it weighs 30 pounds or so and see how your house runs THEN!
I might add that the best kids I know, from about age 4 onwards, ARE
reachable by reason BECAUSE they were made to pay attention while they
were pre-verbal. If you're hitting them after that age, you're a flop,
but first things first.
And hey, it sure looks like a lot of alt.slackers didn't get their
proper swats while THEY were throwing raw eggs on the kitchen floor and
laughing like a loon over it! In fact, these days, some of us need to be
RABBIT PUNCHED repeatedly! I know I do.

HellPope Huey, Radio Doktor, SynthMeister,
'Righter, Frop-Tester, 1st-Class SexHurtMaster
& Dobbster since 1981
"aS CrAzY aS yOu & tWiCe aS dAnGeRoUS wItHouT MeDiCaTioN"

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: mbaranczak@FUCK.SPAM.earthlink.net (Mike Baranczak)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 12:30 PM
Message-ID: <mbaranczak-ya02408000R2404991230010001@news.earthlink.net>

In article <3721D224.6A06AC0@succeeds.com>, like.excess@sex.org wrote:
>
> But you got me thinking: why not dress up the death row inmates so they
> look like clowns, or something really humiliating,

Maybe we could dress them up as white middle-class liberals...

______________________________________
>> The Wallwrestling Institute <<
http://home.earthlink.net/~mbaranczak/
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Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: "ICEKNIFE" <iceknife@lanminds.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack,soc.egg
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 2:22 PM
Message-ID: <fSoU2.4664$%L2.178060@news6.ispnews.com>

hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com wrote in message
<7fsua2$c0a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>In article <3721D2A3.C69268E9@succeeds.com>,
>
> Sorry, y'all, but I still say that's a buncha "liberalistic" frippery.
> I've seen kids who got a little swat while they were still utterly
> unhousebroken tots and a couple whose parents thought ANY kind of
> corporal attention was "abuse."

I was 16 the last time any member of my
family tried to use violence on me.

It was only my childhood spent in dojos,
kwoons, and ashrams that saved their life.

I'm 37, and it's been over 20 years since
they tried anything like that. They taught
me violence, so I did something they never
managed - I got GOOD at it. One of my
sisters never has to hit her children,
she just whistles REALLY LOUD, and they
do as she says. Another of my sibs swats
hers often, and they're a lot quieter than the
rest of my nieces and nephews, but they're
meaner, sneakier, and the older ones are
violent. The first sister insists that when she
doesn't want them to hurt themselves, like
by walking into traffic, she grabs them,
hugs them tight, and lets them see she's
afraid. The second sister gets pissed,
because they "won't do as they're told"
(i.e. don't stroke her ego by bowing to
her "authority"). She claims her kids are
better behaved, but they're the only ones
of the bunch who lie constantly, fight in
school, and steal. They haven't learned
what's healthy or unhealthy, they've
just learned that if you get caught you get
hurt.

Please keep polarized media-hype
political jargon out of the discussion.
Next time you tell me being against hitting
children is "liberalistic", please consider
that's your cultural bias, and in some
cultures hitting children is considered, at
best, the actions of a stupid, thoughtless
person, and at worst the act of a diseased
mind. If smacking a child is the only way to
get them to listen, the parent's shouldn't
have been breeding in the first place....
look what they produced! Stupid people
must be FORCED BY LAW to find a way
to teach thier toddlers that doesn't involve
turning them into psychokiller cannibals.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: temujin9@io.com (Reverend Imposter Eliot)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 3:31 PM
Message-ID: <3724d9ec.4744782@localhost>

On 24 Apr 1999 11:45:34 GMT, AMA Zoroaster <revjack@radix.net> wrote:

>Reverend Imposter Eliot explains it all:
>
>:True, and I have no problem with parent spanking kids to keep them
>:from doing something inherently and immediately dangerous. But in
>:most other circumstances it bugs me, because it strikes me as just so
>:much bullying, with a bit of good intention sprinkled on top for
>:flavor.
>
>Jack's Rambling Unsolicited Observations:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jack, this is USENET. That's part of the standard disclaimer.

>You learned a lot from the people who raised you. Some of it good, some of
>it bad. It's hard not to pass the bad along; what you learned
>instinctively and viscerally is far more deeply ingrained than any
>philosophical or logical concepts thrown your way.

Well, it varies, depending on what "level" its at. Stuff like
violence I can see being really hard to shake because its learned at
such a visceral level. The shit my dad pushed, which was basic
authoritarian bullshit with a twist of liberal pap for flavor, I think
I almost anti-learned. Of course, it may have helped a lot that I had
one good parent, too.

That's one of the things that helps me deal the best with my current
situation; the knowledge that a good parent can do more good than a
bad one can ever undo.

>Somehow, the Coat Kids never learned how to solve their problems.
>
>I'll bet nobody ever taught them how to fail, either.

Exactly. "Teach a man to fish..." and all that. I still have
problems with failure; my reaction tends to be avoidance, which only
makes the failure worse. But I haven't killed anybody yet, and I
manage to muddle better than most given the amount of failure I
encounter.

--
Nathaniel Eliot THE Reverend Imposter Eliot
temujin9@io.com (AUTOEXCOMMUNICATED)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Here Be Dragons: No Trenchcoats In Heaven
From: legume@subgenius.com (Legume)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Apr 24, 1999 4:28 PM
Message-ID: <7ftd2a$ikl$1@usenet42.supernews.com>

In article <7fsua2$c0a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, hellpope_huey@my-dejanews.com
wrote:
>> > > My friend Rosie once asked me if I thought it was abusive for her to
>> > spank
>> > >her intractable 3-year-old son. I laughed and said "Hey, that's what God
>> > made
>> > >the poochy little buttocks FOR! Unless you get his attention NOW, its all
>> > >over, 'cause you won't be able to spank him when he's a sulking
> 15-year-old
>> > >in a leather jacket that has 'Fuck Mom' stenciled across the back under
> the
>> > >name of his favorite thud band of the moment."

MY GAWD! You start out talking about a massacre and now it's degenerated into
an excuse to spank a young boy's "poochy" buttocks. Y'ALL are some SICK
MOTHERFUCKERS.

Dr. K. "Cortez" Legume

Mecagum les cinc llagues de Crist,
mecagum D'eu, en la creu, en el fuster
que la fue i en fill de puta que va plantar el pi

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