Dear Subgenius Computer expert
Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 21:52:32 GMT

--------
Fucking A-

I have Windows XP at home. So when I am using windows explorer and moving
things around in drives and making and deleting files and, like the
non-computer geek dufus that I am, happen to delete one I DON'T want deleted,
all I do is go to the recycle bin. Boom, no big deal.

But of course AT WORK I still crawl around the cro-magnon world of NT and today
had the pleasant discovery that if you delete from explorer in NT, well, the
files are just fucking gone. Too bad asshole! You lose!

They were created and deleted the same day, so no backup had yet occured.

Is there any miracle recovery from some hidden place possible or am I just
fucked? ( Work IT says fucked, but I know if there is any weasily way, a SubG
would know.)


Two other not as important questions since I'm on the subject:

1. Any engineers/architects here? What is your assessment how hard it is to
learn Architectural Desktop/Autocad with no engineering/drafting/architectural
training? No, this is not just a cute thing to do. I actually HAVE to.

2. One of the only, well actually THE only thing that keeps me on Aohell is the
fact that I have years of emails that I need to keep. But funny thing- you lose
AOL, you lose the ability to read the emails, they are in a special I assume
copyrighted code and you have to have the AOL software in order to be able to
read them. I am not trying to get anything over on AOL, but I DO want to be
able to read MY OWN damn correspondance without being a slave each month to
this ISP because they have me over a barrel. (It doesn't matter if they are
saved on your own drive, the computer cant open and read them.) And yes, it's
too late to go through them individually and print or reformat to save as rtf
or anything else. We're talking emails on a bunch of different machines and
tons, yes tons of them.
Any workable suggestions?


--
"Thought contagions spread fastest via proselytic transmission."
-Aaron Lynch


Correspondent:: "Rev. Beergoggles"
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:09:38 -0500

--------
KD et al did pass the time by typing:

> Is there any miracle recovery from some hidden place possible or am I just
> fucked? ( Work IT says fucked, but I know if there is any weasily way, a SubG
> would know.)

hiden place, no.. but if you are lucky there are tools out there for
recovery of deleted files.
http://www.snapfiles.com/Freeware/system/fwdatarecovery.html
The less you do to that box the better.

> Two other not as important questions since I'm on the subject:
>
> 1. Any engineers/architects here? What is your assessment how hard it is to
> learn Architectural Desktop/Autocad with no engineering/drafting/architectural
> training? No, this is not just a cute thing to do. I actually HAVE to.

That all depends on what you have to draw. Simple flat things are easy
and they have some good tutorial books/cds out there (some even online
at the autocad webby site.) I use microstation, makes autocad look downright
friendly.

> 2. One of the only, well actually THE only thing that keeps me on Aohell is
> the fact that I have years of emails that I need to keep. But funny thing-
> you lose AOL, you lose the ability to read the emails, they are in a special
> I assume copyrighted code and you have to have the AOL software in order to
> be able to read them. I am not trying to get anything over on AOL, but I DO
> want to be able to read MY OWN damn correspondance without being a slave each
> month to this ISP because they have me over a barrel. (It doesn't matter if
> they are saved on your own drive, the computer cant open and read them.) And
> yes, it's too late to go through them individually and print or reformat to
> save as rtf or anything else. We're talking emails on a bunch of different
> machines and tons, yes tons of them.
> Any workable suggestions?

costs http://www.connectedsw.com/Overview/57266
http://www.transend.com/
Dunno.. never had AOhell, just nutscrape and EyeEeee.

iffy, http://www.aoleave.com/aoleave2.html




--
rbg




Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 22:32:13 GMT

--------
Rev. Beergoggles wrote:

>hiden place, no.. but if you are lucky there are tools out there for
>recovery of deleted files.
>http://www.snapfiles.com/Freeware/system/fwdatarecovery.html
>The less you do to that box the better.

Thanks. But I can't install/download anything from the outside. If its not
recoverable from NT alone- can't do it.


>> Two other not as important questions since I'm on the subject:
>>
>> 1. Any engineers/architects here? What is your assessment how hard it is to
>> learn Architectural Desktop/Autocad with no
>engineering/drafting/architectural
>> training? No, this is not just a cute thing to do. I actually HAVE to.
>
>That all depends on what you have to draw. Simple flat things are easy
>and they have some good tutorial books/cds out there (some even online
>at the autocad webby site.) I use microstation, makes autocad look downright
>friendly.

Heh, yeah I am aware of microstation though I haven't used it. Architectural
Desktop is a little more thorough than just autocad although autocad *is* its
base. Unfortunately I have to do a lot more than draw flat objects- will need
to master the whole program for architectural drawings. (though I won' t have
to go 3-D anytime soon)

Have a guess at level of difficulty? If it were microstation what would you
say? (looking at these programs I can't believe how behind the industry seems
to be on what *should* be able to be done vs. what is available in this
software- one of the reasons I think it is harder than it has to be.)




>> 2. One of the only, well actually THE only thing that keeps me on Aohell is
>> the fact that I have years of emails that I need to keep. But funny thing-
>> you lose AOL, you lose the ability to read the emails, they are in a
>special
>> I assume copyrighted code and you have to have the AOL software in order to
>> be able to read them. I am not trying to get anything over on AOL, but I
>DO
>> want to be able to read MY OWN damn correspondance without being a slave
>each
>> month to this ISP because they have me over a barrel. (It doesn't matter
>if
>> they are saved on your own drive, the computer cant open and read them.)
>And
>> yes, it's too late to go through them individually and print or reformat to
>> save as rtf or anything else. We're talking emails on a bunch of different
>> machines and tons, yes tons of them.
>> Any workable suggestions?
>
>costs http://www.connectedsw.com/Overview/57266
>http://www.transend.com/
>Dunno.. never had AOhell, just nutscrape and EyeEeee.
>
>iffy, http://www.aoleave.com/aoleave2.html

Thanks for the resources; I will check them out.
--
"Thought contagions spread fastest via proselytic transmission."
-Aaron Lynch


Correspondent:: "Rev. Beergoggles"
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:48:31 -0500

--------
KD et al did pass the time by typing:
> Rev. Beergoggles wrote:
>
>> hiden place, no.. but if you are lucky there are tools out there for
>> recovery of deleted files.
>> http://www.snapfiles.com/Freeware/system/fwdatarecovery.html
>> The less you do to that box the better.
>
> Thanks. But I can't install/download anything from the outside. If its not
> recoverable from NT alone- can't do it.

That proggy might fit on a CD you can drag in then discard.
IIRC, NT bit my butt more than once with the lack of an undelete
command.

> Have a guess at level of difficulty? If it were microstation what would you
> say? (looking at these programs I can't believe how behind the industry seems
> to be on what *should* be able to be done vs. what is available in this
> software- one of the reasons I think it is harder than it has to be.)

If your comfy with a mouse, basic doodling is easy. I use microstation to draw
wiring diagrams and update/redline floorplans. Although we are starting to
migrate to visio for the simple stuff. The issues I have with microstation is
how commands and settings are sorta hidden. And the print/plot was a pain up
till the latest version.

These should help.

http://www.caddigest.com/subjects/adt/tutorials.htm
http://www.tenlinks.com/CAD/USERS/adt.htm


When I was learning microstation we had a one week, "this is your mouse" style class
most of the stuff you sorta learn as you go with the occasional, "Well SHIT, if I
would have known that earlier......!".

The hardest thing about 3d was starting with the correct template in microstation.
After that it's almost the same as most other 3d modelers or POVray front ends.

--
rbg




Correspondent:: "ghost"
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:11:24 GMT

--------

"KD et al" wrote :

(snip)

> 2. One of the only, well actually THE only thing that keeps me on Aohell
is the
> fact that I have years of emails that I need to keep. But funny thing- you
lose
> AOL, you lose the ability to read the emails, they are in a special I
assume
> copyrighted code and you have to have the AOL software in order to be able
to
> read them. I am not trying to get anything over on AOL, but I DO want to
be
> able to read MY OWN damn correspondance without being a slave each month
to
> this ISP because they have me over a barrel.

Why not just keep the AOL software on the computer for mail-reading purposes
and dump AOL as an ISP? Get a decent ISP and fuck'em.

Hell, they send you free software bisks every 2 weeks or so, so you'll never
go without.




Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 22:49:48 GMT

--------
AOL- Not to mention I only get 254 characters for sig lines.*^(#$%*
--"Oh, hell, don't let them drink your tears and want more!..I'll be damned if
death wears MY sadness for glad rags. Don't feed them one damn thing..Breathe!
Blow!"
"Nothing.....funny..."
"SURE there is! Me! You!..All of us!..Look!" -Ray Bradbury


Correspondent:: mshotz@aol.commonkeypo (Rev. Richard Skull)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 23:16:44 GMT

--------
>Is there any miracle recovery from some hidden place possible or am I just
>fucked? ( Work IT says fucked, but I know if there is any weasily way, a SubG
>would know.)
>

Ther are aftermaket UNDelete files for NT.

>1. Any engineers/architects here? What is your assessment how hard it is to
>learn Architectural Desktop/Autocad with no
>engineering/drafting/architectural
>training? No, this is not just a cute thing to do. I actually HAVE to.

Well. Which version are you using. If you have any version higher then release
14, just get a hold of the tutotrial disks.

AUTOCad R14 and higher are the best I've ever used. Ther self paced tutorials
will get you going through some of the basics.

It also depends how complex a entity you are drawing in autocad. 3-D? forget it
it! But 2-D ca ne picked up really easily.


MSHOTZ: The Post Post Modern Man

"War hath no Fury like a non-combatants"

Charles E. Montague


Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Date: 18 Oct 2004 23:28:58 GMT

--------
Rev. Richard Skull wrote:>>Is there any miracle recovery from some hidden place
possible or am I just
>>fucked? ( Work IT says fucked, but I know if there is any weasily way, a
>SubG
>>would know.)
>>
>
>Ther are aftermaket UNDelete files for NT.

Thanks.

>>1. Any engineers/architects here? What is your assessment how hard it is to
>>learn Architectural Desktop/Autocad with no
>>engineering/drafting/architectural
>>training? No, this is not just a cute thing to do. I actually HAVE to.
>
>Well. Which version are you using. If you have any version higher then
>release
>14, just get a hold of the tutotrial disks.
>
>AUTOCad R14 and higher are the best I've ever used. Ther self paced tutorials
>will get you going through some of the basics.
>
>It also depends how complex a entity you are drawing in autocad. 3-D? forget
>it
>it! But 2-D ca ne picked up really easily.

Yeah they don't even support 14 anymore I think. I'm on 3.0 so I'll dig around
and see what I can find.

No 3-D anytime soon which helps but the 2-D stuff I will be working on is kind
of complex (at least for a beginner). Gets into a caps program and all other
sorts of nasty things.

Thanks for the info. I'll check around.
--"Oh, hell, don't let them drink your tears and want more!..I'll be damned if
death wears MY sadness for glad rags. Don't feed them one damn thing..Breathe!
Blow!"
"Nothing.....funny..."
"SURE there is! Me! You!..All of us!..Look!" -Ray Bradbury


Correspondent:: "iDRMRSR"
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 20:32:50 -0400

--------
Rant to KD:

I can't believe I'm reading a post with questions such as yours. For you
see, I am a silverhaired Yeti. I can remember the time before microwave
ovens. Even Color TV. But, shit, not black and white TV, I'm not that
fucking old.

A miserable half century on this planet has caused me to answer your
questions from a DIFFERENT perspective.

As far as your undelete question is concerned, YOU GOT IT ALL BACKWARD!

If you grew up with computers, you'd know that a GOOD BACKUP is all that is
EVER required. If data is that fucking precious, it deserves to be backed
UP...even many times a day if necessary. Never trust anything to a fucking
computer, even for a few minutes. Presume every byte of storage is gone,
even as you type it, unless you are holding TWO copies of it in your young
little hands. Do that, and you'll never need an UNDELETE proggie again.

With respect to DESIGN programs and whether they are EASY TO USE or
not...*FUCK*...people USED to go to COLLEGE for YEARS and take tons of HARD
MATH courses and break their CERVICAL VERTEBRAE bent over DRAWING BOARDS,
choking on the fumes from developing BLUE PRINTS.

And you want to pop a disk in and all of a sudden build a 3D universe...but
only if it's EASY. Jeeebus H. Xrist!

My only consolation is that you will prolly be explaining to your grand
offspring how you had to have a LABORIOUS COMPUTER TUTORIAL to explain how
to make 3D drawings instead of slurping some kind of Engineer Stem Cell
Cocktail like they do to neural interface to the replicator.

You'll see, about the time in your life when your prostate suddenly becomes
a matter of concern, I promise. Right around the time your grand offspring
complain that the stem cell cocktail tastes SO YUCKY.

Ooops, sorry that came off a little HARSH.

[*]
-----






Correspondent:: "ghost"
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 00:59:01 GMT

--------

"iDRMRSR" wrote:

(snip)

> You'll see, about the time in your life when your prostate suddenly
becomes
> a matter of concern, I promise.

I don't think SHE has a prostate

at least not her own.




Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 01:06:27 GMT

--------
Ghost wrote:

>"iDRMRSR" wrote:
>
>(snip)
>
>> You'll see, about the time in your life when your prostate suddenly
>becomes
>> a matter of concern, I promise.
>
>I don't think SHE has a prostate

>at least not her own.

Heh. Yeah, but I have plenty of squooshy parts of my own to worry about!

--"Oh, hell, don't let them drink your tears and want more!..I'll be damned if
death wears MY sadness for glad rags. Don't feed them one damn thing..Breathe!
Blow!"
"Nothing.....funny..."
"SURE there is! Me! You!..All of us!..Look!" -Ray Bradbury


Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 01:02:21 GMT

--------

IDRMRSR wrote:
>Rant to KD:

>I can't believe I'm reading a post with questions such as yours. For you
>see, I am a silverhaired Yeti. I can remember the time before microwave
>ovens. Even Color TV. But, shit, not black and white TV, I'm not that
>fucking old.

You're not that much older than me, dingy.

>A miserable half century on this planet has caused me to answer your
>questions from a DIFFERENT perspective.
>
>As far as your undelete question is concerned, YOU GOT IT ALL BACKWARD!
>
>If you grew up with computers, you'd know that a GOOD BACKUP is all that is
>EVER required. If data is that fucking precious, it deserves to be backed
>UP...even many times a day if necessary. Never trust anything to a fucking
>computer, even for a few minutes. Presume every byte of storage is gone,
>even as you type it, unless you are holding TWO copies of it in your young
>little hands. Do that, and you'll never need an UNDELETE proggie again.

Duh! But some of us peons have no say how often our own computers are backed
up or anything that has to do with any decisions regarding them including
whether we even have back-up software.
I supposed I could save each of the 4 drives I work on, on disk every half
hour, but somehow I don't think that would be efficacious.


>With respect to DESIGN programs and whether they are EASY TO USE or
>not...*FUCK*...people USED to go to COLLEGE for YEARS and take tons of HARD
>MATH courses and break their CERVICAL VERTEBRAE bent over DRAWING BOARDS,
>choking on the fumes from developing BLUE PRINTS.

You know what- they still do that.

>And you want to pop a disk in and all of a sudden build a 3D universe...but
>only if it's EASY. Jeeebus H. Xrist!

Mmmhmm. The point is its not easy; you can't just pop in a tutorial and know
the specifications of blueprint design as well as understand the intricacies of
structual, electrical, plumbing, furniture and architectural design.

In essence, I agree with you. There's a reason people go to school for this.

>My only consolation is that you will prolly be explaining to your grand
>offspring how you had to have a LABORIOUS COMPUTER TUTORIAL to explain how
>to make 3D drawings instead of slurping some kind of Engineer Stem Cell
>Cocktail like they do to neural interface to the replicator.

No, I've refused to fulfil my sociological and biological duty and procreate.

However, hopefully, *somebody's* grandoffspring will START OFF in 3-D design or
BETTER rather than laboring in outdated models.

>You'll see, about the time in your life when your prostate suddenly becomes
>a matter of concern, I promise. Right around the time your grand offspring
>complain that the stem cell cocktail tastes SO YUCKY.

Lucky me, I get to miss the prostrate crisis since I'm female. I get to become
a poor old bag lady instead. Lucky me.

>Ooops, sorry that came off a little HARSH.

Don't harsh me, man.

--"Oh, hell, don't let them drink your tears and want more!..I'll be damned if
death wears MY sadness for glad rags. Don't feed them one damn thing..Breathe!
Blow!"
"Nothing.....funny..."
"SURE there is! Me! You!..All of us!..Look!" -Ray Bradbury


Correspondent:: Zapanaz
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:53:27 -0700

--------
On 19 Oct 2004 01:02:21 GMT, kdetal@aol.com (KD et al) wrote:

>Duh! But some of us peons have no say how often our own computers are backed
>up or anything that has to do with any decisions regarding them including
>whether we even have back-up software.
>I supposed I could save each of the 4 drives I work on, on disk every half
>hour, but somehow I don't think that would be efficacious.

I have never seen a computer backed up more than once a day ... I
think mister sister may have had a sudden convulsion of OLD CODGER'S
DISEASE.

You can set up a sytem to back up a compuer as often as you want, you
emntioned elsewhere though that you need a signed note from God and
Timothy Leary and Bill Gates in order to install anything on your box,
so that screws most of my ideas.

The problem though, really, is that if you are using Windows, even if
you had such a system in place, you'd have been screwed, because most
likely when a backup run started, you would have had this file open
(you say it was new and you were working on it) and 99% of apps in
Windows take advantage of Window's completely fucking deranged policy
of "locking" files when you open them. This means that NOTHING ELSE
can read the file. It is impossible, as far as I know, to override.
99.999999999999999999 % of the time, it seves NO PURPOSE WHATSOEVER.
But Windows loves to "lock files" and applications under Windows think
Bill Gates will notice and fall in love with the developers if they
take advantage of this nifty feature.

So anyway, most likely even if you had a 4/day backup, the file you
were working on would not have been backed up.


--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
You have just received the Amish Virus.

As we don't have any electricity, computers or programming
experience, this virus works on the honor system. Please delete all
of the files from your hard drive and post this virus to other news
groups



Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 20:49:42 GMT

--------
Zapanaz wrote:

>So anyway, most likely even if you had a 4/day backup, the file you
>were working on would not have been backed up.
>

Thanks Joe, good to know.
Luckily it wasn't a major crisis, but it *was* a valuable lesson

--"Oh, hell, don't let them drink your tears and want more!..I'll be damned if
death wears MY sadness for glad rags. Don't feed them one damn thing..Breathe!
Blow!"
"Nothing.....funny..."
"SURE there is! Me! You!..All of us!..Look!" -Ray Bradbury


Correspondent:: "iDRMRSR"
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:48:36 -0400

--------
KD:

>>Lucky me, I get to miss the prostrate crisis since I'm female. I get to
become
a poor old bag lady instead. Lucky me.

Yeah, well, some people think I'm a Lesbian.

Geez, that's one of the other risks an old fart runs when ranting and
posting PAST MY BEDTIME. Heh, you get used to getting it all WRONG, too,
about the time the parts of your bod that are usually really, really smooth,
get wrinkled.

Next time I go after somebody, I'm going to check all the facts before I let
my knee jerk, m'kay? Oh, hell, why bother.

[*]
-----




Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 20:47:54 GMT

--------
idrmrsr wrote:

>KD:
>
>>>Lucky me, I get to miss the prostrate crisis since I'm female. I get to
>become
>a poor old bag lady instead. Lucky me.
>
>Yeah, well, some people think I'm a Lesbian.
>
>Geez, that's one of the other risks an old fart runs when ranting and
>posting PAST MY BEDTIME. Heh, you get used to getting it all WRONG, too,
>about the time the parts of your bod that are usually really, really smooth,
>get wrinkled.
>
>Next time I go after somebody, I'm going to check all the facts before I let
>my knee jerk, m'kay? Oh, hell, why bother.

You can come after me anytime sweetie.
It may be the only action I get!
--"Oh, hell, don't let them drink your tears and want more!..I'll be damned if
death wears MY sadness for glad rags. Don't feed them one damn thing..Breathe!
Blow!"
"Nothing.....funny..."
"SURE there is! Me! You!..All of us!..Look!" -Ray Bradbury


Correspondent:: Cardinal Vertigo
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:24:53 GMT

--------
KD et al wrote:

> Any workable suggestions?

Repent, quit your job, and slack off.


Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Date: 19 Oct 2004 20:51:53 GMT

--------
Vertigo wrote:

> Any workable suggestions?
>
>Repent, quit your job, and slack off.
>

Nah, the concept of starvation and homelessness would take away *all* my slack.
As it is, I still have a pretty joyously slackful life.
--"Oh, hell, don't let them drink your tears and want more!..I'll be damned if
death wears MY sadness for glad rags. Don't feed them one damn thing..Breathe!
Blow!"
"Nothing.....funny..."
"SURE there is! Me! You!..All of us!..Look!" -Ray Bradbury