Here's the problem
Correspondent:: Cardinal Vertigo
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 03:15:53 GMT
--------
226 million Americans, representing 80.3% of our country's population,
live in metropolitan areas.
Only 55.4 million people, representing 19.7% of the population, still
live in rural areas, and that percentage is steadily shrinking.
Almost all of us are living in the cities now, and yet, thanks to the
Electoral College, rural voters are given wildly disproportionate
representation in Presidential elections. As we've seen both recently
and in the past, any well-managed candidate can ride to victory by
loudly trumpeting himself or herself as representing "the values of
Rural America," as if that represented anything besides backwardness and
bigotry to 80% of us.
On top of this, behind the scenes, corporate "donors" funnel truckloads
of sweaty cash into campaigns, ensuring that elected representatives
always remember which side their bread is buttered on. It's a sensible
business decision, from the corporate point of view. This happens in
both major parties, and serious third-party Presidential challenges are
all but unviable for a variety of reasons.
The American people aren't completely stupid. They can be pretty
perceptive sometimes, and that's evidenced in the fact that, if an
eligible voter staying home and not voting were counted as "none of the
above," "none of the above" would win just about every election.
This is what passes for democracy in America.
But there's a better way. Direct Presidential elections, financed
completely and exclusively by the public, with an instant runoff system
to guarantee no candidate can win without a majority. An instant runoff
system has the neat side effect of making third-party candidacies truly
viable.
Individual states have experimented with these reforms for local
elections and have met with nothing but success so far. Other countries
have adopted similar systems with great results. A simple act of
Congress is all that would be required, not a Constitutional amendment
or a Supreme Court ruling.
American democracy might someday come to stand for something besides
corruption and demagoguery, but not until we have direct and clean
elections using an instant-runoff system.
Correspondent:: nenslo
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 22:48:45 -0800
--------
Cardinal Vertigo wrote:
>
>
> American democracy might someday come to stand for something besides
> corruption and demagoguery, but not until we have direct and clean
> elections using an instant-runoff system.
And where is the huge corporate rakeoff in that?
Correspondent:: Cardinal Vertigo
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:55:08 GMT
--------
nenslo wrote:
> Cardinal Vertigo wrote:
>>
>>
>> American democracy might someday come to stand for something besides
>> corruption and demagoguery, but not until we have direct and clean
>> elections using an instant-runoff system.
>
> And where is the huge corporate rakeoff in that?
There is none. It's actually all about screwing them, if you want to
look at it that way. I'm a member of a PAC that's working on this stuff
and we really are gonna make it happen.
It'll be a bit of a process, but we'll sneak it in by getting
instant-runoff voting (IRV) done first. It'll take some time, sure, but
we're all young. Once IRV is done, third parties will come along and
make public financing a platform issue and the elegance of the IRV
system will force the two majors to start making concessions to the
people's will or risk losing office.
See, people generally love the idea of publicly financed elections --
especially once they're educated about the actual cost of the system,
because it costs practically nothing when done right. By most estimates
we could have it ready to rock in 2008 for about a dollar a year from
each taxpayer. One of the Northeastern states, Vermont I think, has a
publicly financed system in place right now that the people in the state
are loving.
And leftist third parties like the Greens (who already love public
financing and IRV) have nothing to lose and everything to gain by making
the issue a centerpiece in their platform; they don't get big corporate
donations anyway, never have, and never will. All their money comes
from individual supporters -- and most of that comes from repeated small
donations from working-class people, with only an occasional big check
from a millionaire with a nagging conscience.
Anyway, then we'll just keep applying well-organized pressure on the
issue for another decade or two (not hard to do when the grassroots are
passionate about the issue and infrastructure is as cheap as it is) et
voila, clean democratic elections in our lifetime.
That's the goal, so you don't have to thank us until we're done. Good
thing no one really listens to crazy Cardinal Vertigo from alt.slack or
else you could stop it all by getting corporate leaders and the very
wealthy to understand that IRV represents a direct threat to the
structure that provides them with their ridiculous wealth.
Fortunately corporate leaders aren't often interested in threats
articulated by Internet kooks that, even if they were genuine, would
take thirty years to materalize. Still, perhaps it's best to keep the
"open plotting to destroy the CON" sort of thing within the church, no?
Correspondent:: nenslo
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:25:12 -0800
--------
Cardinal Vertigo wrote:
>
>
> Anyway, then we'll just keep applying well-organized pressure on the
> issue for another decade or two (not hard to do when the grassroots are
> passionate about the issue and infrastructure is as cheap as it is) et
> voila, clean democratic elections in our lifetime.
>
Heh. "Clean democratic elections." Good one.
Correspondent:: Cardinal Vertigo
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:33:05 GMT
--------
nenslo wrote:
> Cardinal Vertigo wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, then we'll just keep applying well-organized pressure on the
>> issue for another decade or two (not hard to do when the grassroots are
>> passionate about the issue and infrastructure is as cheap as it is) et
>> voila, clean democratic elections in our lifetime.
>
> Heh. "Clean democratic elections." Good one.
Yeah, I thought you might like it.
Correspondent:: nenslo
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 00:40:44 -0800
--------
Cardinal Vertigo wrote:
>
> nenslo wrote:
> > Cardinal Vertigo wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyway, then we'll just keep applying well-organized pressure on the
> >> issue for another decade or two (not hard to do when the grassroots are
> >> passionate about the issue and infrastructure is as cheap as it is) et
> >> voila, clean democratic elections in our lifetime.
> >
> > Heh. "Clean democratic elections." Good one.
>
> Yeah, I thought you might like it.
Well I did.
Correspondent:: Cardinal Vertigo
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:42:35 GMT
--------
nenslo wrote:
> Cardinal Vertigo wrote:
>>
>> nenslo wrote:
>> > Cardinal Vertigo wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Anyway, then we'll just keep applying well-organized pressure on the
>> >> issue for another decade or two (not hard to do when the grassroots are
>> >> passionate about the issue and infrastructure is as cheap as it is) et
>> >> voila, clean democratic elections in our lifetime.
>> >
>> > Heh. "Clean democratic elections." Good one.
>>
>> Yeah, I thought you might like it.
>
> Well I did.
And that's why you're my favorite uncle.
Correspondent:: hellpopehuey@subgenius.com (HellPopeHuey)
Date: 7 Nov 2004 20:32:16 -0800
--------
Cardinal Vertigo wrote in message news:<%70jd.16757$Rf1.1143@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>...
> nenslo wrote:
> > Well I did.
>
> And that's why you're my favorite uncle.
Despite the fact that when Mommy isn't looking, he fondles your
little kalushkies and then threatens to kill her if you tell. Ah well,
at least he brings good candy.
--
HellPope Huey
Never mind the bollocks,
where's the bleedin' cordiality?
Where would this country be
without this great land of ours?
- Ronald Reagan
"Two dogs died, one from guinea worms,
the other from you."
- Hunter S. Thompson
Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (This That and the Other )
Date: 06 Nov 2004 14:28:38 GMT
--------
>American democracy might someday come to stand for something besides
>>> corruption and demagoguery, but not until we have direct and clean
>>> elections using an instant-runoff system.
How will this change the fact that votes are easily manipulated because voters
are easily manipulated?
--
" I alone hold the key to this savage ballyhoo."
-Rimbaud
Correspondent:: "Rev. Beergoggles"
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:55:45 -0600
--------
This That and the Other did pass the time by typing:
>> American democracy might someday come to stand for something besides
>>>> corruption and demagoguery, but not until we have direct and clean
>>>> elections using an instant-runoff system.
>
> How will this change the fact that votes are easily manipulated because voters
> are easily manipulated?
Voters want to be manipulated. Hell, some of us even pay to be manipulated.
/me wonders if there is such a thing as voter pr0n?
Voting for pr0n
http://desires.com/1.3/Sex/docs/porn.html
Voting tips from a pr0n star
http://8763wonderland.crimsonzine.com/20041101-15765.html
sadly there just isn't much voter pr0n out there.
Where are the couples going at it in a voting booth. Ya know,
the old ones with fiddly knobs and dials with curtains. Not the
weak ass cardboard box ones that leave you or your mate on the
cold cold floor amongst a mass of ripped and soggy cardboard.
--
rbg
Correspondent:: Zapanaz
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 10:41:38 -0800
--------
On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 08:55:45 -0600, "Rev. Beergoggles"
wrote:
>sadly there just isn't much voter pr0n out there.
>Where are the couples going at it in a voting booth. Ya know,
>the old ones with fiddly knobs and dials with curtains. Not the
>weak ass cardboard box ones that leave you or your mate on the
>cold cold floor amongst a mass of ripped and soggy cardboard.
Well there should be, millions of voters went into the voting booths
this time and screwed themselves.
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
If God dropped acid, would he see people?
- kate
Correspondent:: kdetal@aol.com (This That and the Other )
Date: 06 Nov 2004 20:29:04 GMT
--------
>sadly there just isn't much voter pr0n out there.
>>Where are the couples going at it in a voting booth. Ya know,
>>the old ones with fiddly knobs and dials with curtains. Not the
>>weak ass cardboard box ones that leave you or your mate on the
>>cold cold floor amongst a mass of ripped and soggy cardboard.
>
>Well there should be, millions of voters went into the voting booths
>this time and screwed themselves.
That line is worthy of the Daily Show.
--
" I alone hold the key to this savage ballyhoo."
-Rimbaud
Correspondent:: Cardinal Vertigo
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 17:29:38 GMT
--------
This That and the Other wrote:
>>American democracy might someday come to stand for something besides
>>>> corruption and demagoguery, but not until we have direct and clean
>>>> elections using an instant-runoff system.
>
> How will this change the fact that votes are easily manipulated because voters
> are easily manipulated?
It won't. Those of us who aren't evil are going to have to face reality
and start manipulating voters just as shamelessly as those of us who ARE
evil do now.
Correspondent:: mshotz@aol.commonkeypo (Rev. Richard Skull)
Date: 06 Nov 2004 16:00:23 GMT
--------
>226 million Americans, representing 80.3% of our country's population,
>live in metropolitan areas.
>
>Only 55.4 million people, representing 19.7% of the population, still
>live in rural areas, and that percentage is steadily shrinking.
>
>Almost all of us are living in the cities now, and yet, thanks to the
>Electoral College, rural voters are given wildly disproportionate
>representation in Presidential elections. As we've seen both recently
>and in the past, any well-managed candidate can ride to victory by
>loudly trumpeting himself or herself as representing "the values of
>Rural America," as if that represented anything besides backwardness and
>bigotry to 80% of us.
>
>On top of this, behind the scenes, corporate "donors" funnel truckloads
>of sweaty cash into campaigns, ensuring that elected representatives
>always remember which side their bread is buttered on. It's a sensible
>business decision, from the corporate point of view. This happens in
>both major parties, and serious third-party Presidential challenges are
>all but unviable for a variety of reasons.
>
>The American people aren't completely stupid. They can be pretty
>perceptive sometimes, and that's evidenced in the fact that, if an
>eligible voter staying home and not voting were counted as "none of the
>above," "none of the above" would win just about every election.
>
>This is what passes for democracy in America.
>
>But there's a better way. Direct Presidential elections, financed
>completely and exclusively by the public, with an instant runoff system
>to guarantee no candidate can win without a majority. An instant runoff
>system has the neat side effect of making third-party candidacies truly
>viable.
>
>Individual states have experimented with these reforms for local
>elections and have met with nothing but success so far. Other countries
>have adopted similar systems with great results. A simple act of
>Congress is all that would be required, not a Constitutional amendment
>or a Supreme Court ruling.
>
>American democracy might someday come to stand for something besides
>corruption and demagoguery, but not until we have direct and clean
>elections using an instant-runoff system.
>
>
>
NO! There is a Better "Better Way!" Dictatorship under "BoB" where we Ordained
Sub-G's Ministers, Popes, Popessses, Lords, ladies, and misc others have
abosult power to rule by our mandate form "BoB"!
Stang would be the supreme one who issues decrees that the rest of us will
ignor at our leasure.
We will take the place as overseeers to "BoB's" plantation, and the Pinks,
Norms, and Gorps shall be our Darkies!
And every night we shall sneek behind the woodpile to say "Pleasure me you
human wench!"
MSHOTZ: The Post Post Modern Man
"War hath no Fury like a non-combatants"
Charles E. Montague
Correspondent:: "iDRMRSR"
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 11:35:24 -0500
--------
>>We will take the place as overseeers to "BoB's" plantation, and the Pinks,
Norms, and Gorps shall be our Darkies!
And every night we shall sneek behind the woodpile to say "Pleasure me you
human wench!"<<
Damn, Skull, where were you when I needed a good write in candidate?
[*]
-----
Correspondent:: Frere Jean Bleu
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 22:57:12 +1100
--------
Vertigo wrote this a couple of days ago.
>>American democracy might someday come to stand for something besides
>>corruption and demagoguery, .......
.SIG!
Fr J B
Correspondent:: Artemia Salina
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 14:41:37 -0500
--------
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 03:15:53 +0000, Cardinal Vertigo wrote:
> 226 million Americans, representing 80.3% of our country's population,
> live in metropolitan areas.
>
> Only 55.4 million people, representing 19.7% of the population, still
> live in rural areas, and that percentage is steadily shrinking.
This is a LIE!
> Almost all of us are living in the cities now, and yet, thanks to the
> Electoral College, rural voters are given wildly disproportionate
> representation in Presidential elections. As we've seen both recently
> and in the past, any well-managed candidate can ride to victory by
> loudly trumpeting himself or herself as representing "the values of
> Rural America," as if that represented anything besides backwardness and
> bigotry to 80% of us.
This is a blatant yet subtle twisting of the truth! Notice that blanketing
rural America with the label of "bigot" is bigotry itself!
Don't trust this BIGOT!
> On top of this, behind the scenes, corporate "donors" funnel truckloads
> of sweaty cash into campaigns, ensuring that elected representatives
> always remember which side their bread is buttered on. It's a sensible
> business decision, from the corporate point of view. This happens in
> both major parties, and serious third-party Presidential challenges are
> all but unviable for a variety of reasons.
NOTICE his use of the word "sweaty" to make campaign contributions seem
evil! This is the kind of manipulation that he accuses the Right of
perpetrating! The reality is that this is a capitalist system we live in.
There is nothing inherently evil about money. If it weren't for money
and a healthy interest in acquiring lots of it for one's own pleasure
there would be no alt.slack, or Brushwood, or Dobbshead bumper stickers.
DON'T TRUST THIS MANIPULATIVE CANUCKLEHEAD!
> The American people aren't completely stupid.
MORE BIGOTRY!! HOW DARE YOU USE SUCH SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS!!
> They can be pretty
> perceptive sometimes, and that's evidenced in the fact that, if an
> eligible voter staying home and not voting were counted as "none of the
> above," "none of the above" would win just about every election.
>
> This is what passes for democracy in America.
SO what the fuck is wrong with THAT?? Oh, *I* know, what's WRONG is that
your guy DIDN'T win this time!!! I can see how you would insist that
changes be made to prevent that from happening again!!!!
And here it comes, The Vertigo Guaranty!
> But there's a better way. Direct Presidential elections, financed
> completely and exclusively by the public, with an instant runoff system
> to guarantee no candidate can win without a majority. An instant runoff
> system has the neat side effect of making third-party candidacies truly
> viable.
>
> Individual states have experimented with these reforms for local
> elections and have met with nothing but success so far. Other countries
> have adopted similar systems with great results. A simple act of
> Congress is all that would be required, not a Constitutional amendment
> or a Supreme Court ruling.
THAT IS INSANE!!! SHUT UP YOU WHINING LITTLE LOSER, SHUT UP!!
> American democracy might someday come to stand for something besides
> corruption and demagoguery, but not until we have direct and clean
> elections using an instant-runoff system.
WOULD YOU HAVE SUGGESTED THIS RADICAL CHANGE IF YOUR MAN HAD WON?!!?!?!?!