Thomas Kinkade, Painter of Light

From: nenslo <nenslo@yahooX.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Aug 28, 2003

Pretzelcoatl wrote:
> Boo! Hiss! Bleh! Yuck! Awful!
>
> But they say his empire is falling on hard times, as well it should.
>
> They say he has some talent. I say he wastes it, but that's because I'm
> applying a different values system from the one he's operating in. He's a
> shrewd businessperson, one can say that. But one can say the same of George
> Lucas, if you know what one means.

If it's wasting "talent" to be able to figure out what lots and lots
of people will pay money for, why, I don't even know how to finish
this sentence. The comparison between Kinkade and Lucas is quite
accurate - my own comparison was with Spielberg, but it's the same
really. What should they be doing, making some kind of baffling crap
that only eight people in the world even partly understand and a
million artfags PRETEND to understand so they wont feel uncool? They
found out what normal people like, and they sold it to them. As many
different colors as possible in one picture, 8000 computer animated
characters onscreen at one time, and lots of dangling from precipices
and chase scenes. More power to them. Not everyone can be genuinely
creative. Most people aren't interested in art that they have to have
explained to them. There's room in this world for all sorts of things
and we can have any kind of opinion we want to about it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Pretzelcoatl" <pretzel@coatl.atl>

I do! A talent for making money is a perfectly respectable thing. I was
referring to talent as regards mastery of art techniques, which Kinkade
clearly has. It's the representation of the safest, most mundane, warm
glowing cottage in the woods sort of thing which I cynically referred to as
a waste.

> The comparison between Kinkade and Lucas is quite
> accurate - my own comparison was with Spielberg, but it's the same
> really.

Agreed.

> What should they be doing, making some kind of baffling crap
> that only eight people in the world even partly understand and a
> million artfags PRETEND to understand so they wont feel uncool?

To my mind, there's no "should." There are choices as to what to do with
one's creativity, and in what contexts. I don't know about that pretend
thing. It's largely true, but then, I see allegations made against a lot of
modern art that are just plain ignorant. I stand happily in the middle on
those arguments. I hate the pretentiousness and snobbery in the art world,
being very close to it in my city, but I love the good art. There are
poseurs in any scene, definitely in the art game, but there's a lot of very
cool content that gets dumped on by folks who aren't willing to give it
consideration, too.

>They
> found out what normal people like, and they sold it to them.

OK, but Kinkade is a pink normal. He's a Christian right-winger, not that I
haven't known and liked a few, or loved, in the case of some family members,
but see what I mean? From the general SubG perspective, he's all that is
falsely comforting, dangerously nostalgic for times that never were, etc.

> As many
> different colors as possible in one picture, 8000 computer animated
> characters onscreen at one time, and lots of dangling from precipices
> and chase scenes.

That sounds like a cross between Kinkade, Japanese Web sites, and RoadRunner
cartoons, but I think I know what you mean.

> More power to them. Not everyone can be genuinely
> creative. Most people aren't interested in art that they have to have
> explained to them.

You make several good and valid points, but the converse points are equally
true.

> There's room in this world for all sorts of things
> and we can have any kind of opinion we want to about it.

Totally agreed. That's why I feel free to express my own disdain for art
that I consider to be boring and resonant of The Con. There's a lot more to
my anti-Kinkade feelings, but I won't go into them because it's largely
about technical details that would be boring and irrelevant to this group. I
wanted to briefly rant, and did. :-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alliekatt" <alleykatzen@hotmail.com>

"nenslo" <nenslo@yahooX.com> wrote:
They
> found out what normal people like, and they sold it to them. As many
> different colors as possible in one picture, 8000 computer animated
> characters onscreen at one time, and lots of dangling from precipices
> and chase scenes. More power to them. Not everyone can be genuinely
> creative. Most people aren't interested in art that they have to have
> explained to them. There's room in this world for all sorts of things
> and we can have any kind of opinion we want to about it.

THX-1138 was boring as FUCK compared to Star Warz. And if that was Lucas'
attempt at an obscure social statement in youth then he'd already done far
better than others for their whole career. It flew past any angsty shit Jim
Jarmusch has done. And as far as angsty shit with a social statement,
Quentin Tarantino made it interesting by adding ultraviolence. Of course
there's "Dawn till Dusk" which has no redeeming quality whatsoever besides
juicy, delicious in-your-face evil and infinitely quotable evil dialogue.

Appreciating CG space opera mediocrity in surround sound paves the way for
darker, pleasanter things like wanking to girls in space outfits and
dressing up to go to Rocky Horror in high school. But appreciating blinky
LED lights in a big gaudy print of a thatched cottage in spring, touched up
with texture glaze, is like wanking to your grandmother. It's white trash
with money trying to have taste and failing miserably. It's wrong. It's
Baptist. Thomas Kinkade must be destroyed. Give me Boris Vallejo's CHEEZ
WHIZ MONSTERS and TITS anyday. There's a painter who sold out in a GOOD
way.

alliekatt

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: joecosby@mindspring.com (Joe Cosby)

"Alliekatt" <alleykatzen@hotmail.com> wrote:
> THX-1138 was boring as FUCK compared to Star Warz. And if that was Lucas'
> attempt at an obscure social statement in youth then he'd already done far
> better than others for their whole career. It flew past any angsty shit Jim
> Jarmusch has done. And as far as angsty shit with a social statement,
> Quentin Tarantino made it interesting by adding ultraviolence. Of course
> there's "Dawn till Dusk" which has no redeeming quality whatsoever besides
> juicy, delicious in-your-face evil and infinitely quotable evil dialogue.

THX-1138 was George Lucas projected through a stereotype 70's science
fiction set of cliches.

Have you ever seen the Bee Gee's psychedelic album? They did it in
the late sixties, and it is filled with stereotype psychedelic musical
cliches. As soon as the styles changed in the seventies they forgot
about all that hippy shit and piled on all the disco shit.

I see George Lucas as a cinematic equivalent of the Bee Gees.

> Appreciating CG space opera mediocrity in surround sound paves the way for
> darker, pleasanter things like wanking to girls in space outfits and
> dressing up to go to Rocky Horror in high school. But appreciating blinky
> LED lights in a big gaudy print of a thatched cottage in spring, touched up
> with texture glaze, is like wanking to your grandmother. It's white trash
> with money trying to have taste and failing miserably. It's wrong. It's
> Baptist. Thomas Kinkade must be destroyed. Give me Boris Vallejo's CHEEZ
> WHIZ MONSTERS and TITS anyday. There's a painter who sold out in a GOOD
> way.

Well, IMO the whole cast and crew of "Life as a House" should be
rounded up and shot for terminal annoying hyper sensitive
pretentiosness.

OTOH, there are things like Seven Samurai that occasionally remind me
that a movie doesn't necessarily HAVE to be completely mindless to be
good.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KRONOS <null@void.com>

joecosby@mindspring.com wrote:
> THX-1138 was George Lucas projected through a stereotype 70's
> science fiction set of cliches.

thx-1138 is great. you're stupidd. and a luser

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: zosodada@aol.com (Zosodada)

<< Have you ever seen the Bee Gee's psychedelic album? They did it in
the late sixties, and it is filled with stereotype psychedelic musical
cliches. As soon as the styles changed in the seventies they forgot
about all that hippy shit and piled on all the disco shit. >>

That was their thing back then. There were a couple, but you might be thinking
of Cucumber Castle. I think of it less as psychedelic and more as
proto-renn-fair fare.

Attn.: SubPenis Hecklers
Yah, uh, kik 'um inna nutz. Haw! Haw!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>

Alliekatt <alleykatzen@hotmail.com> wrote:
> THX-1138 was boring as FUCK compared to Star Warz. And if that was Lucas'
> attempt at an obscure social statement in youth then he'd already done far
> better than others for their whole career.

It sure impressed the hell out of me when I saw it as a film student
and realized it was a glorified student film. After the first Star Wars
though, jeepers, the poor guy kinda went downhill, didn't he.
SubGenius-wise, I mean. Is it possible that infinite coke and yes-men
can transform a SubGenius into a Normal?

I sure would love a chance to put that to the test someday.

> It flew past any angsty shit Jim
> Jarmusch has done. And as far as angsty shit with a social statement,
> Quentin Tarantino made it interesting by adding ultraviolence. Of course
> there's "Dawn till Dusk" which has no redeeming quality whatsoever besides
> juicy, delicious in-your-face evil and infinitely quotable evil dialogue.
>
> Appreciating CG space opera mediocrity in surround sound paves the way for
> darker, pleasanter things like wanking to girls in space outfits and
> dressing up to go to Rocky Horror in high school.

You are so cruel. At least I never dressed up to go to Rocky Horror.

> But appreciating blinky
> LED lights in a big gaudy print of a thatched cottage in spring, touched up
> with texture glaze, is like wanking to your grandmother. It's white trash
> with money trying to have taste and failing miserably. It's wrong.

To be fair, some white trash teenagers have HOT-looking grandmothers no
older than 36.*

> It's
> Baptist. Thomas Kinkade must be destroyed. Give me Boris Vallejo's CHEEZ
> WHIZ MONSTERS and TITS anyday. There's a painter who sold out in a GOOD
> way.
>

People bandy about the term "selling out" as if it were a choice that
an artist makes, which actually it's entirely subjective to the person
viewing the art. For instance, making money is J.R. "Bob" Dobbs' "art."
In his case, selling out is the only way to keep his integrity and be
true to his artistic soul.

* (AND SOME FEW HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO WEAR PROVOCATIVE MOONPANTS.)

--
4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected (Rev. Ivan Stang, prop.)
PRABOB

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alliekatt" <alleykatzen@hotmail.com>

"Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com> wrote:
> Is it possible that infinite coke and yes-men
> can transform a SubGenius into a Normal?

I just know that it almost universally transforms a Normal Genius into a
SubNormal.

> To be fair, some white trash teenagers have HOT-looking grandmothers no
> older than 36.*

It is annoying to think that I'm five years away from being a grandmother in
an alternate po'bucker timeline.

> People bandy about the term "selling out" as if it were a choice that
> an artist makes, which actually it's entirely subjective to the person
> viewing the art. For instance, making money is J.R. "Bob" Dobbs' "art."
> In his case, selling out is the only way to keep his integrity and be
> true to his artistic soul.

Well. Yeah.

> * (AND SOME FEW HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO WEAR PROVOCATIVE MOONPANTS.)

They're the pants that the astronauts wore to the mooooon!

alliekatt

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "U. M. Zaporets" <reverend_jim_jones@yahoo.com>

Space pants?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: nenslo <nenslo@yahooX.com>

"Rev. Ivan Stang" wrote:
> People bandy about the term "selling out" as if it were a choice that
> an artist makes, which actually it's entirely subjective to the person
> viewing the art. For instance, making money is J.R. "Bob" Dobbs' "art."
> In his case, selling out is the only way to keep his integrity and be
> true to his artistic soul.

People bandy about the term "selling out," as you very well know, when
they are disappointed to see someone who uses their skills to be
something other than an indigent pseudo-intellectual. Just another
way of criticizing people for not being failures.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com>

nenslo <nenslo@yahooX.com> wrote:
> Pretzelcoatl wrote:
> >
> > Boo! Hiss! Bleh! Yuck! Awful!
> >
> > But they say his empire is falling on hard times, as well it should.
> >
> > They say he has some talent. I say he wastes it, but that's because I'm
> > applying a different values system from the one he's operating in. He's a
> > shrewd businessperson, one can say that. But one can say the same of George
> > Lucas, if you know what one means.
>
> If it's wasting "talent" to be able to figure out what lots and lots
> of people will pay money for, why, I don't even know how to finish
> this sentence. The comparison between Kinkade and Lucas is quite
> accurate - my own comparison was with Spielberg, but it's the same
> really. What should they be doing, making some kind of baffling crap
> that only eight people in the world even partly understand and a
> million artfags PRETEND to understand so they wont feel uncool? They
> found out what normal people like, and they sold it to them. As many
> different colors as possible in one picture, 8000 computer animated
> characters onscreen at one time, and lots of dangling from precipices
> and chase scenes. More power to them. Not everyone can be genuinely
> creative. Most people aren't interested in art that they have to have
> explained to them. There's room in this world for all sorts of things
> and we can have any kind of opinion we want to about it.

But yours are the creeeepiest opinions by far! IMHO

I don't mean that in a negative way either. I appreciate the way you
flipflop between being Tolerant Ol' Mister Zen Slack, and the
Archbishop of Good-Taste, post by post. Lord knows this newsgroup can
use even that dollop of excitement.

I don't even know who this Kinkaid artist is that you guys are talking
about, and yesterday my wife had to explain to me who The Olson Twins
are. But we went to see Pirates of the Caribbean at the movie theater
yesterday, and it sure was air-conditioned.

How's that for an opinion.

--
4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected (Rev. Ivan Stang, prop.)
PRABOB

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Pretzelcoatl" <pretzel@coatl.atl>

"Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgenius.com> wrote:
> nenslo <nenslo@yahooX.com> wrote:

(snip)

> I don't even know who this Kinkaid artist is that you guys are talking
> about, and yesterday my wife had to explain to me who The Olson Twins
> are. But we went to see Pirates of the Caribbean at the movie theater
> yesterday, and it sure was air-conditioned.
>
> How's that for an opinion.

Beautiful! Especially your opinion that the air was conditioned. I am
frequently of the same opinion about the air, although I'm not sure if it
was conditioned using those Clockwork Orange Ludoslavski (or whatever it was
called) aversion techniques, or something nicer like that Pavlovian canine
thingy. But yes, air is a messy, uncivilized thing without a bit of
conditioning, gotta agree, there.

I'm sure that if one Googles "Thomas Kinkade," the context of my distaste
will be frighteningly evident. Enjoy the pretty colors. :-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KRONOS <null@void.com>

kincaid is THE painter of light for our times. He is better than ten
rembrandts and five van gohs

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Reverend Vertigo <vertigo@spam.invalid>

Rev. Ivan Stang wrote:

[snip snip snippety]

> about, and yesterday my wife had to explain to me who The Olson Twins
> are. But we went to see Pirates of the Caribbean at the movie theater

Flyer for a local garage band's upcoming gig:

"The Olsen twins, and recreational marijuana use."
[Still of Johnny Carson in turban with 3x5 card pressed to forehead.]
"Name three things you really wish were legal."
[Band name, venue, date and time.]

--
J. Ross Hobbs
http://www.firemuse.org

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ridetheory@yahoo.com (ignatz topolino)

nenslo <nenslo@yahooX.com> wrote:
> The comparison between Kinkade and Lucas is quite
> accurate - my own comparison was with Spielberg, but it's the same
> really. What should they be doing, making some kind of baffling crap
> that only eight people in the world even partly understand and a
> million artfags PRETEND to understand so they wont feel uncool?

Lucas has actually said that he would rather be directing plotless art
movies that are about speed and motion. And he's in a position to do
it. I wish he would. Couldn't be any worse than the recent Star
Warses.

iggy topo

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mshotz@aol.commonkeypo (Rev. Richard Skull)

>Lucas has actually said that he would rather be directing plotless art
>movies that are about speed and motion. And he's in a position to do
>it. I wish he would. Couldn't be any worse than the recent Star
>Warses.

I agree about the plots of teh Star Wars. But the Increasing better computer
graphics are fantastic!

Some are predicting that in a few years we could have new Bogart, Cary Grant,
or Three Stooges Movies that are completely CGI and would look as good or
better then the origanals!

Just imagine the Stooges in todays world......

The Stooges as Dog Walkers

Stooges as Fast Food Workers

Stooges as Homeland Security Operatives.

The possibilities are endless.

MSHOTZ: The Post Post Modern Man

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: KRONOS <null@void.com>

What i'd tell ya about wastin time on the internet ya knucklehead-get
back to work!!
Hey Moe look- slackers!!
OW-OW-OW-OW!!!!!!!!
nyuck nyuck nyuck

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rabbi Shankar" <me@privacy.net>

"KRONOS" <null@void.com> wrote
> Some are predicting that in a few years we could have new Bogart,
> Cary Grant, or Three Stooges Movies that are completely CGI and
> would look as good or better then the origanals!

This irks me no end. Here people have the ability to create ANY reality
they can possibly dream up, and what do they do? Create an EXACT COPY of
this reality. Jesus. THINK for a second. Is that too much to ask?

augh.

On the other hand, the really tall race of cloners were mezmerizingly
beautiful. Those eyes were amazing. That's a step in the right direction.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: nenslo <nenslo@yahooX.com>

Rabbi Shankar wrote:
> Here people have the ability to create ANY reality
> they can possibly dream up, and what do they do? Create an EXACT COPY of
> this reality. Jesus. THINK for a second. Is that too much to ask?

Yes.


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