I see London. I see France, I see SACRED UNDERPANTS!

From: "Blackout" <blackout@404subgenius.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack,sci.skeptic
Date: Sat, Dec 7, 2002 8:28 AM

"nenslo" wrote

> Another reason I think you clambashing L. Ron Homos are all idiots:
> If you'd spend about two hours really looking into Mormon history
> you'd find that Mormonism is the BIG CIRCUS OF HORRORS that makes
> Scientology look like what it really is: a one-chimp sideshow. You
> dopes have fits because you can prove one crank said it was okay to
> kill or torment his enemies; Mormon "Avenging Angels" committed
> multiple massacres of unsuspecting strangers. Utah's capital
> punishment laws are derived directly from Mormon doctrine of Blood
> Atonement. Mormon history is rife with instances of crime - fraud,
> murder, con games, bank fraud, forgery, blackmail, influence peddling,
> intimidation, you name it. Founder Joseph Smith wrote an entire book
> of translations from egyptian papyri purchased from a traveling
> sideshow - including the Book of Abraham which is part of the Mormon
> scriptures - and it was all just made up. The actual papyrii still
> exist and are fragments of copies of the book of the dead and other
> well-known texts interred with mummies. Prophet Smith made pocket
> money as a treasure finder and water witch before he found the Lost
> Tribe of Israel novel manuscript which he plagiarized into the Sacred
> texts revered by millions in this multi-billionn dollar international
> criminal organization.
>
> Why do you waste your time on Scientology? BECAUSE YOU ARE IGNORANT
> IDIOTS. Because Scientology is a feeble joke small enough to make you
> think you are doing something when you repeat the same weak jibes over
> and over again. Mormonism is a true global criminal organization
> founded on plagiarism, fraud and crime and maintained by strict social
> control, brainwashing and criminal activities. Their own publications
> and church documents prove this. You dumb jerks.

I dug up some info on the mormon "garments" or underwear just for YOU, mr.
grouchyface.

now where's them used panties you promised me 3 years ago?

__________________________________________________________________________

Those who have been through the temple are required to wear "garments" for
the rest of their lives. William J. Whalen says:

The devout Mormon who has received his "endowments" in the temple will wear
sacred temple undergarments at all times. Resembling a union suit, now
abbreviated at the knees, the undergarments are worn by both men and women,
awake and sleeping. It is said that older Mormons refuse to take off these
garments

525

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

526

completely even while taking a bath; they will hang one leg out of the tub
so that they will never lose contact with the garments. Mystic signs are
embroidered on them to remind the wearers of their temple obligations (The
Latter-day Saints in the Modern Day World, 1964, pp.18-19).

On page 168 of the same book, Mr. Whalen says that "the garment was a
long union suit of muslin or linen with the specified cabalistic marks. It
has been abbreviated in recent years especially in the interests of feminine
fashions."

The fact that the garments have been abbreviated is very interesting,
for the early Mormon leaders taught that they could not be changed.
President Joseph F. Smith declared before the changes were made:

The Lord has given unto us garments of the holy priesthood, and you know
what that means. And yet there are those of us who mutilate them, in order
that we may follow the foolish, vain and (permit me to say) indecent
practices of the world. In order that such people may imitate the fashions,
they will not hesitate to mutilate that which should be held by them the
most sacred of all things in the world, next to their own virtue, next to
their own purity of life. They should hold these things that God has given
unto them sacred, unchanged and unaltered from the very pattern in which God
gave them. Let us have the moral courage to stand against the opinions of
fashion, and especially where fashion compels us to break a covenant and so
commit a grievous sin (The Improvement Era, vol. 9:813, as quoted in Temples
of the Most High, p.276).

In 1918 the First Presidency of the church sent a message to the bishops
in which the following appears:

FIRST: The garments worn by those who receive endowments must be white, and
of the approved pattern; they must not be altered or mutilated, and are to
be worn as intended, down to the wrist and ankles, and around the neck.

Please inform all to whom you issue recommends that these requirements are
imperative ... The Saints should know that the pattern of endowment garments
was revealed from heaven, and that the blessings promised in connection with
wearing them will not be realized if any unauthorized change is made in
their form, or in the manner of wearing them (Messages of the First
Presidency, by J. R. Clark, 1971, vol. 5, p.110).

Although the Mormon leaders vigorously maintained that the "garments"
must be "worn as intended, down to the wrist and ankles, and around the
neck," and that they could not be altered from "the very pattern in which
God gave them," wom-

526

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

527

women's fashions caused the arms and legs to be shortened and the neck line
to be lowered. Until 1975, however, the Mormon leaders still required that
members of the church wear the "old style" garments when they were taking
part in the temple ritual. After the temple ceremony was over, members of
the church would replace these garments, which came down to the wrists and
ankles, with the abbreviated type. In our book Mormonism - Shadow or
Reality? p.463, we have included a photograph of the "old style" garments.

The major change in the length of the garments was made in 1923. On June
14 of that year the First Presidency of the church sent out a message to
various church leaders which contained the following:

For some time past the First Presidency and Council of Twelve have had under
consideration the propriety of permitting certain modifications in the
temple garment, with the following result

After careful and prayerful consideration it was unanimously decided that
the following modifications may be permitted, and a garment of the following
style be worn by those Church members who wish to adopt it, namely:

(1) Sleve to elbow.
(2) Leg just below knee.
(3) Buttons instead of strings.
(4) Collar eliminated.
(5) Crotch closed.

... It is the mind of the First Presidency and Council of Twelve that this
modified garment may be used by those who desire to adopt it, without
violating any covenant they make in the House of the Lord, and with a clear
conscience....

It should be clearly understood that this modified garment does not
supercede the approved garment now in use,... those using either will not be
out of harmony with the order of the Church....

Will you kindly advise the Bishops of your Stake of these changes, being
careful to give the matter no unnecessary publicity.

This letter is not to pass from your hands, nor are copies to be furnished
to any other person (Letter by the First Presidency of the Mormon church,
dated June 14, 1923).

Such a change could not be made without the gentiles noticing it. The
Salt Lake Tribune reported:

Coming not as an order, nor as a rule to be rigidly enforced, but rather
permissive in character, is a recent outgiving of the first presidency... It
concerns the garments....

527

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

528

While minor modifications of the temple garment, it is said, have been made
at various times during past years, the latest order in permission is
regarded by younger members of the church as most liberal and acceptable....
Some of the pioneer stock look upon any deviation from the old order as a
departure from what they had always regarded as an inviolable rule....

In the old days the temple garment was made of plain, unbleached cotton
cloth.... No buttons were used on the garment. ... But despite these
imperfections, the old-style garment is faithfully adhered to by many of the
older and sincerely devout members of the church. These regard the garment
as a safeguard against disease and bodily harm, and they believe that to
alter either the texture of cloth or style, or to abandon the garment
altogether would bring evil upon them.

One good woman ... hearing of the change that has recently come about, went
to the church offices and uttered fervid objection. "I shall not alter my
garments, even if President Grant has ordered me to do so.... The pattern
was revealed to the Prophet Joseph and Brother Grant has no right to change
it," she said.

Explanation was made that the first presidency had merely issued permission
to those who so desired to make the modifying change ... The change in style
is permitted for various good reasons, chief among which are promotion of
freedom of movement in the body and cleanliness. Formerly the sleeves were
long, reaching to the wrists. While doing housework the women would roll up
the sleeves. If sleeves were to be rolled up they might as well be made
short in the first place for convenience, it was argued. Permission to
abbreviate is now given, but it is not an order...

Encasing the lower limbs the old-style garment reaches to the ankles and is
looked upon by young members as baggy, uncomfortable and ungainly. The young
of the gentler sex complained that to wear the old style with the new and
finer hosiery gave the limbs a knotty appearance. It was embarrassing in
view of the generally accepted sanitary shorter skirt. Permission is
therefore granted by the first presidency to shorten the lower garment. Also
buttons are permitted to take the place of the tie-strings (The Salt Lake
Tribune, June 4, 1923).

Since 1923 the temple garment has been abbreviated even more. The
sleeves no longer came down to the elbow, nor do the legs hang down over the
knee. The Mormon leaders now seem to put more emphasis on the importance of
the marks in the garment rather than the garment itself. On August 31,1964,
the First Presidency of the Mormon church sent a letter to presidents of
stakes and bishops of wards in which the following appeared:

528

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

529

The calling of men into military training renders it desirable to reaffirm
certain observations heretofore made in the matter of wearing the temple
garment.

1. The covenants taken in the temple and attached to the wearing of garments
contemplate that they will be worn at all times....

...............

3. Where the military regulations are of a character that "hinders," that
is, makes impossible the wearing of the regulation garments,... effort
should be made to wear underclothing that will approach as near as may be
the normal garment.

Where military regulations require the wearing of two-piece underwear, such
underwear should be properly marked, as if the articles were of the normal
pattern. If circumstances are such that different underwear may be turned
back to the wearer from that which he sends to the laundry, then the marks
should be placed on small pieces of cloth and sewed upon the underwear while
being worn, then removed when the underwear is sent to the laundry, and
resewed upon the underwear returned.

As we indicated earlier, until 1975 Mormon leaders required members of
the church to wear the "old style" garments when they went through the
endowment ceremony. On November 10 of that year a change was made that
permitted members to wear the abbreviated garments in the temple. In a
letter to "All Temple Presidents" the First Presidency of the church
instructed:

In the future, while involved in temple ordinances, patrons will have the
option of wearing either the "approved style" garment (short sleeve and knee
length) or the garment with the long sleeve and long leg.

Patrons receiving their initiatory ordinances may be clothed in their own
"approved style" garment.

It is suggested that temple presidents not purchase any more of the
long-sleeve, long-leg garments for rental purposes.

This may be announced to all temple workers and posted on the bulletin
boards in the locker rooms. Notice is going forward to Stake, Mission, and
District Presidents suggesting that they notify Bishops, Branch Presidents
and other priesthood leaders. No other announcement or publicity is desired.

The suggestion that "temple presidents not purchase any more of the
long-sleeve, long-leg garments for rental purposes" leads to the conclusion
that Mormon leaders are embarrassed by the "old style" garments and want to
gradually phase them out.

from http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech22a.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: I see London. I see France, I see SACRED UNDERPANTS!
From: friday@fridayjones.com (Friday Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.slack,sci.skeptic,alt.sloak
Date: Sat, Dec 7, 2002 9:09 AM
Message-ID: <friday-ya02408000R0712020910250001@news.earthlink.net>

In article <rHmI9.5$AE5.12336@news.uswest.net>, "Blackout"
<blackout@404subgenius.com> wrote:

>"nenslo" wrote
>
>> Another reason I think you clambashing L. Ron Homos are all idiots:
>> If you'd spend about two hours really looking into Mormon history
>> you'd find that Mormonism is the BIG CIRCUS OF HORRORS that makes
>> Scientology look like what it really is: a one-chimp sideshow. You
>> dopes have fits because you can prove one crank said it was okay to
>> kill or torment his enemies; Mormon "Avenging Angels" committed
>> multiple massacres of unsuspecting strangers. Utah's capital
>> punishment laws are derived directly from Mormon doctrine of Blood
>> Atonement. Mormon history is rife with instances of crime - fraud,
>> murder, con games, bank fraud, forgery, blackmail, influence peddling,
>> intimidation, you name it. Founder Joseph Smith wrote an entire book
>> of translations from egyptian papyri purchased from a traveling
>> sideshow - including the Book of Abraham which is part of the Mormon
>> scriptures - and it was all just made up. The actual papyrii still
>> exist and are fragments of copies of the book of the dead and other
>> well-known texts interred with mummies. Prophet Smith made pocket
>> money as a treasure finder and water witch before he found the Lost
>> Tribe of Israel novel manuscript which he plagiarized into the Sacred
>> texts revered by millions in this multi-billionn dollar international
>> criminal organization.
>>
>> Why do you waste your time on Scientology? BECAUSE YOU ARE IGNORANT
>> IDIOTS. Because Scientology is a feeble joke small enough to make you
>> think you are doing something when you repeat the same weak jibes over
>> and over again. Mormonism is a true global criminal organization
>> founded on plagiarism, fraud and crime and maintained by strict social
>> control, brainwashing and criminal activities. Their own publications
>> and church documents prove this. You dumb jerks.
>
>I dug up some info on the mormon "garments" or underwear just for YOU, mr.
>grouchyface.
>
>now where's them used panties you promised me 3 years ago?
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>Those who have been through the temple are required to wear "garments" for
>the rest of their lives. William J. Whalen says:
>
>The devout Mormon who has received his "endowments" in the temple will wear
>sacred temple undergarments at all times. Resembling a union suit, now
>abbreviated at the knees, the undergarments are worn by both men and women,
>awake and sleeping. It is said that older Mormons refuse to take off these
>garments
>
>525
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>526
>
>completely even while taking a bath; they will hang one leg out of the tub
>so that they will never lose contact with the garments. Mystic signs are
>embroidered on them to remind the wearers of their temple obligations (The
>Latter-day Saints in the Modern Day World, 1964, pp.18-19).
>
> On page 168 of the same book, Mr. Whalen says that "the garment was a
>long union suit of muslin or linen with the specified cabalistic marks. It
>has been abbreviated in recent years especially in the interests of feminine
>fashions."
>
> The fact that the garments have been abbreviated is very interesting,
>for the early Mormon leaders taught that they could not be changed.
>President Joseph F. Smith declared before the changes were made:
>
>The Lord has given unto us garments of the holy priesthood, and you know
>what that means. And yet there are those of us who mutilate them, in order
>that we may follow the foolish, vain and (permit me to say) indecent
>practices of the world. In order that such people may imitate the fashions,
>they will not hesitate to mutilate that which should be held by them the
>most sacred of all things in the world, next to their own virtue, next to
>their own purity of life. They should hold these things that God has given
>unto them sacred, unchanged and unaltered from the very pattern in which God
>gave them. Let us have the moral courage to stand against the opinions of
>fashion, and especially where fashion compels us to break a covenant and so
>commit a grievous sin (The Improvement Era, vol. 9:813, as quoted in Temples
>of the Most High, p.276).
>
> In 1918 the First Presidency of the church sent a message to the bishops
>in which the following appears:
>
>FIRST: The garments worn by those who receive endowments must be white, and
>of the approved pattern; they must not be altered or mutilated, and are to
>be worn as intended, down to the wrist and ankles, and around the neck.
>
>Please inform all to whom you issue recommends that these requirements are
>imperative ... The Saints should know that the pattern of endowment garments
>was revealed from heaven, and that the blessings promised in connection with
>wearing them will not be realized if any unauthorized change is made in
>their form, or in the manner of wearing them (Messages of the First
>Presidency, by J. R. Clark, 1971, vol. 5, p.110).
>
> Although the Mormon leaders vigorously maintained that the "garments"
>must be "worn as intended, down to the wrist and ankles, and around the
>neck," and that they could not be altered from "the very pattern in which
>God gave them," wom-
>
>526
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>527
>
>women's fashions caused the arms and legs to be shortened and the neck line
>to be lowered. Until 1975, however, the Mormon leaders still required that
>members of the church wear the "old style" garments when they were taking
>part in the temple ritual. After the temple ceremony was over, members of
>the church would replace these garments, which came down to the wrists and
>ankles, with the abbreviated type. In our book Mormonism - Shadow or
>Reality? p.463, we have included a photograph of the "old style" garments.
>
> The major change in the length of the garments was made in 1923. On June
>14 of that year the First Presidency of the church sent out a message to
>various church leaders which contained the following:
>
>For some time past the First Presidency and Council of Twelve have had under
>consideration the propriety of permitting certain modifications in the
>temple garment, with the following result
>
>After careful and prayerful consideration it was unanimously decided that
>the following modifications may be permitted, and a garment of the following
>style be worn by those Church members who wish to adopt it, namely:
>
>(1) Sleve to elbow.
>(2) Leg just below knee.
>(3) Buttons instead of strings.
>(4) Collar eliminated.
>(5) Crotch closed.
>
>... It is the mind of the First Presidency and Council of Twelve that this
>modified garment may be used by those who desire to adopt it, without
>violating any covenant they make in the House of the Lord, and with a clear
>conscience....
>
>It should be clearly understood that this modified garment does not
>supercede the approved garment now in use,... those using either will not be
>out of harmony with the order of the Church....
>
>Will you kindly advise the Bishops of your Stake of these changes, being
>careful to give the matter no unnecessary publicity.
>
>This letter is not to pass from your hands, nor are copies to be furnished
>to any other person (Letter by the First Presidency of the Mormon church,
>dated June 14, 1923).
>
> Such a change could not be made without the gentiles noticing it. The
>Salt Lake Tribune reported:
>
>Coming not as an order, nor as a rule to be rigidly enforced, but rather
>permissive in character, is a recent outgiving of the first presidency... It
>concerns the garments....
>
>527
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>528
>
>While minor modifications of the temple garment, it is said, have been made
>at various times during past years, the latest order in permission is
>regarded by younger members of the church as most liberal and acceptable....
>Some of the pioneer stock look upon any deviation from the old order as a
>departure from what they had always regarded as an inviolable rule....
>
>In the old days the temple garment was made of plain, unbleached cotton
>cloth.... No buttons were used on the garment. ... But despite these
>imperfections, the old-style garment is faithfully adhered to by many of the
>older and sincerely devout members of the church. These regard the garment
>as a safeguard against disease and bodily harm, and they believe that to
>alter either the texture of cloth or style, or to abandon the garment
>altogether would bring evil upon them.
>
>One good woman ... hearing of the change that has recently come about, went
>to the church offices and uttered fervid objection. "I shall not alter my
>garments, even if President Grant has ordered me to do so.... The pattern
>was revealed to the Prophet Joseph and Brother Grant has no right to change
>it," she said.
>
>Explanation was made that the first presidency had merely issued permission
>to those who so desired to make the modifying change ... The change in style
>is permitted for various good reasons, chief among which are promotion of
>freedom of movement in the body and cleanliness. Formerly the sleeves were
>long, reaching to the wrists. While doing housework the women would roll up
>the sleeves. If sleeves were to be rolled up they might as well be made
>short in the first place for convenience, it was argued. Permission to
>abbreviate is now given, but it is not an order...
>
>Encasing the lower limbs the old-style garment reaches to the ankles and is
>looked upon by young members as baggy, uncomfortable and ungainly. The young
>of the gentler sex complained that to wear the old style with the new and
>finer hosiery gave the limbs a knotty appearance. It was embarrassing in
>view of the generally accepted sanitary shorter skirt. Permission is
>therefore granted by the first presidency to shorten the lower garment. Also
>buttons are permitted to take the place of the tie-strings (The Salt Lake
>Tribune, June 4, 1923).
>
> Since 1923 the temple garment has been abbreviated even more. The
>sleeves no longer came down to the elbow, nor do the legs hang down over the
>knee. The Mormon leaders now seem to put more emphasis on the importance of
>the marks in the garment rather than the garment itself. On August 31,1964,
>the First Presidency of the Mormon church sent a letter to presidents of
>stakes and bishops of wards in which the following appeared:
>
>528
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
>
>529
>
>The calling of men into military training renders it desirable to reaffirm
>certain observations heretofore made in the matter of wearing the temple
>garment.
>
>1. The covenants taken in the temple and attached to the wearing of garments
>contemplate that they will be worn at all times....
>
>...............
>
>3. Where the military regulations are of a character that "hinders," that
>is, makes impossible the wearing of the regulation garments,... effort
>should be made to wear underclothing that will approach as near as may be
>the normal garment.
>
>Where military regulations require the wearing of two-piece underwear, such
>underwear should be properly marked, as if the articles were of the normal
>pattern. If circumstances are such that different underwear may be turned
>back to the wearer from that which he sends to the laundry, then the marks
>should be placed on small pieces of cloth and sewed upon the underwear while
>being worn, then removed when the underwear is sent to the laundry, and
>resewed upon the underwear returned.
>
> As we indicated earlier, until 1975 Mormon leaders required members of
>the church to wear the "old style" garments when they went through the
>endowment ceremony. On November 10 of that year a change was made that
>permitted members to wear the abbreviated garments in the temple. In a
>letter to "All Temple Presidents" the First Presidency of the church
>instructed:
>
>In the future, while involved in temple ordinances, patrons will have the
>option of wearing either the "approved style" garment (short sleeve and knee
>length) or the garment with the long sleeve and long leg.
>
>Patrons receiving their initiatory ordinances may be clothed in their own
>"approved style" garment.
>
>It is suggested that temple presidents not purchase any more of the
>long-sleeve, long-leg garments for rental purposes.
>
>This may be announced to all temple workers and posted on the bulletin
>boards in the locker rooms. Notice is going forward to Stake, Mission, and
>District Presidents suggesting that they notify Bishops, Branch Presidents
>and other priesthood leaders. No other announcement or publicity is desired.
>
>The suggestion that "temple presidents not purchase any more of the
>long-sleeve, long-leg garments for rental purposes" leads to the conclusion
>that Mormon leaders are embarrassed by the "old style" garments and want to
>gradually phase them out.
>
>
>from http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech22a.htm

LIES, ALL LIES!

The only TRUW Church underwear can be found at:

http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/store.aspx?s=subgen.29392

Praise the PRAIRIE SQUID THONG PANTIES!

A wise man once said, "If you are firmly rooted in the Tao, all the forces
of the earth may pull at you, and you will not be moved." Similarly, if you
are freely floating with the flow of Slack, you may make a thousand
journeys, and never feel the effort of a single step. - St. Marc

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Original file name: I see London. I see Franc.txt - converted on Monday, 21 July 2003, 13:47