Stang Explains the War

In article <f9a02c0.0110261825.7716e86a@posting.google.com>, The Bishop <kconvery@ioma.com> wrote:

Okay, I'm just playing devil's advocate here, 'cause I don't trust anybody.

>
> I find it difficult to believe, when you consider the massive damage
> this sneak attack has had and will have on the economy (stupid),
> including petroleum sales (air travel is down and so are vacations in
> general, so sales at the pumps are way down too), and on our daily
> lives (picked up your mail today?), and add to that the gargantuan
> expense of cleaning it up (a shitload of unemployment checks and a
> $15-billion bailout do not an Illuminati victory make), that anyone
> would advance the notion that it was conceived by us.

The suspicion is that it was EXPLOITED by people here (utilizing dumbasses from There) who wouldn't have to PAY for any of that, but would in the long run make money off of it, or rather, off its long range repercussions. That may sound paranoid, and maybe it is, but there's nothing wrong with the MATH of it, so to speak. The money they HAVE actually, it's future power that is at stake.

And I also find
> it hard to believe that anyone would oppose the military retaliation
> in progress on the grounds that "civilians may be hurt" (they already
> have been, and I'm talking about American casualties, the kind that
> COUNT) or that "we created this guy" (patent rubbish, he asked for
> help and then he turned on us like the rabid dog that he is) or that
> "American servicemen will be hurt" (it's an all-volunteer service,
> which is, by all accounts including my friends in the military, ready
> and eager to fight) or that "there'll just be more terrorism" (as
> opposed to what if we don't respond?) or "then we'll be just as bad as
> they are" (ask any judge if it matters who struck first in a fight;
> they'll tell you it certainly does) or even for "all war is wrong"
> (tell it to the Taliban, sister) or "why don't YOU go fight then, ya
> pussy?"

I think the main objection from many people is that they're afraid the "War on terrorism" can't possibly be something that ENDS, that the WTC attack created a "reason" to do something They were looking for an excuse to do anyway -- basically nail down more control over oil supplies during the critical last decades before they dry up and world FREAKOUT ensues. Notice that it went from "we may have to give up few freedoms for a couple of years" to "this will be a permanent change in our way of life", in about a week. You'll probably hear MORE dissent, and not just from left wing college students. This is the kind of thing that also freaks gun owners, for instance.

Some even say "we can't win this war," but if that's so, then why
> have the Taliban offered not once, but three times since the bombs
> began falling on them, to turn bin Laden over if the bombs stop
> falling? Hardly the chest-pounding proud Muslim defiance we'd heard
> from them before. And I love this euphemism you're spreading around so
> thinly, "dissent." "There's no room for dissent, we all have to fall
> into lockstep with the war machine, poor us"

That's an exageration, but from the dissenter's point of view, it is frightening -- for the simple reason that dissenters seem to be outnumbered by "warmongers" by about 80 to 1. Depends on who you talk to, though. Most people I talk to are doing a lot of reading outside the mass media, and like me are coming up honestly confused.

--it's funny that this
> line comes most often from those who also believe that Americans are
> insular and know little about the world outside America.

I can only speak for myself, but I had no INKLING how insular I had been until I traveled in other countries long enough to get a feel for what was up. China absolutely staggered me. I realized 1) how ignorant we generally are about everything Asian and 2) how incredibly much worse Communism in Northern China was than even our bleakest anti-Red propaganda had depicted.

I had the crap shocked out of me coming AND going.

It's ironic,
> because in many countries, you could be disappeared for saying, "This
> country is intolerant of dissent!" If I've missed anything, please
> point it out to my sheep-like, herd-following ass.

You are absolutely right, we have enjoyed wonderful freedom of Gripe for a long time. We are richer than the richest kings were during most of the planet's history, in terms of pure creature comfort and the ability to do whatever the fuck we want -- WHEN WE'RE CLOCKED OUT. Even the KKK gets to be defended by the ACLU.

But that guy that's President isn't the one that got the most votes, and what's even worse is, if the other guy had "won," it probably wouldn't have made hardly a lick of difference in the long run.

We've seen how swiftly a seemingly rational population can suddenly turn. That "McCarthyism" stuff was for real -- it really worked. Once those seemingly small "rights" are taken away, they're REALLY hard to get back.

And we also don't KNOW how much is REAL any more. We really don't. We HAVE to be suspicious.

You'll notice that the right and left fringes are starting to agree with each other again... the conservatives are complaining about this sudden acceptance of "Martial Law" as much as the liberals are. And yet... and yet... somehow none of that burbles up to the surface of the 6 oclock news or even the Enquirer.

I'm not ranting
> here, and thank "Bob" for that, 'cause it would be a pretty piss-poor
> rant. I'm just trying to ascertain if there are any objections to
> current government military activity that are based on something other
> than the growing-very-stale "if America does it, it must be Satanic."

It's a very teeny minority of the usual mopey mop-tops who are that ignorant of foreign affairs. They haven't learned that ALL THE OTHER COUNTRIES SUCK TO, AND MOST OF THEM SUCK WORSE (at least they would sure suck worse to THESE kids). You're stereotyping dissenters. I'm a flag waving super patriot AND I'm a dissenter, in that I'm starting to seriously question, "WHAT THE FUCK??!?"

Don't get me wrong, I want to personally see TORTURED ON LIVE TV whoever is responsible for those attacks AND any other terrorist attacks.

The problem is, when you pull back and look at what the primates are doing from a Patriopsychotic AnarchoMaterialist point of view, you start to whiff that There's Something Stinky in Dobbstown. I'm afraid SOME of these trails may lead back around to our own secret dungeons. SOME. FAR from all, and who knows, maybe it really IS for our own good. But it could also be that They're starting to decide who gets to go IN the Dome and who stays outside. And I guarantee, you and me do NOT have backstage passes to THIS dome.

>
> Does anyone have the wherewithal to further this thread without the
> use of asinine, "you want blood then spill your own" non-arguments?
> All replies that fail to address my points directly will be considered
> concessions, and humiliating ones at that. And no, your pseudo-snappy
> faux-witty one-line reply doesn't change that. If you feel like
> plonking me, PLEASE DO SO, I hate that my words of wisdom would be
> wasted on the unappreciative, so plonking me would be a favor to me.
>
> This announcement has been paid for by Equal Time for Warmongers,
> copyright 8661.

I haven't seen that Warmongers were having any trouble getting air time.

I find myself saying, "YAY! We're clobbering those terrorist-harboring bastards!!" but also thinking, "Funny, I do belive this is EXACTLY where BOTH sides of the Conspiracy wanted me -- TRUSTING one of them."

You kinda HAVE to be partial to one and I'm partial to der Fatherland, needless to say. But I do NOT trust it and NOW is the time to SAY so, JUST... IN... CASE.

If our worries are groundless, then by god, I fretted needlessly. I don't want to hinder our soldiers, but I want to make sure they have the same old party atmosphere to return home to, and not something out of a Terry Gilliam movie.

Well... too late for that. But beware the savage jaws of 1984, dude. That could still happen, and POSSIBLY before 1998.

And AFTER that -- ROAD WARRIOR. Rock and stick could replace rock and roll for a THOUSAND YEARS. Let's hope that's pne of the things that's being PREVENTED and not HASTENED.

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Original file name: Stang War2Bishop - converted on Thursday, 20 December 2001, 03:31