Quote of the day

From: duke0uke <osama@bin.laden.org>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Thu, Dec 13, 2001 3:04 PM

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography
-Ambrose Beirce
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Subject: Re: Quote of the day
From: goldfingerjaws@aol.com (Goldfinger jaws)

Especially after we repave Afganistan with nothing but Mc Donalds and Asphalt!

-Rev. Jive MAD Talk'n Rambo Neuman "Lactater of the Forbidden Sci - Ants of the
Hollow Forests of the Pathetica Northwest"

"I'm stuck in my excredimeditation chamber and I'm not coming out" - Me
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Subject: Re: Quote of the day
From: nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com>

Too bad war doesn't teach Americans history.

Though I think I have figured out the only way
Afghanistan will ever be at peace. It won't be easy,
it will take the redirection of money (not new money)
and patience.

War won't do it. No amount of violence will ever give
order or peace in a nation that has been at war for
3000 years. Bribery won't, either. It's been tried.
Democracy won't. Communism won't. Dictatorship won't.
Even a massive army of occupation won't.

Refugees will. I mean refugees from every corner of
the planet. Millions upon millions of men, women and
children, occupying every even semi-habitable corner
of the country. Taken away from the hated majority
and the savage dictator of their home country. Free.

Redirect all the food that was to have been given to
the dictator that hated them, to distribute. Instead
directly to them, the refugees. El Dictator never
gets another dime of blackmail aid, or filthy graft
from the 95% of the food he sells for profit.

The same with the health care aid. Again, not ever
again a *dime* to El Dictator. Every *bit* of the
health care aid going directly to the refugees.
And use the savings to educate their children, and
start them on the road to prosperity.

The world arms industry suffers. No longer convenient
civil wars to distract the people from the mismanagement
by their local tyrant. No more scapegoats.

And what of Afghanistan? In a way, something of a
catharsis for the nation. The tribes that so hated
each other, the strange languages, customs, religions--
all swamped by refugees. Everything becomes
international. Instead of a dozen language, there are
now a hundred, so all must rely on English and French
to get by. The police are United Nations, eventually
training and promoting solely by intelligence and effort.
Anyone who is smart and works will get ahead.

Ideally, the nation will eventually feed itself, then
perhaps have an economy that grows and prospers. Maybe
even a government of *all* the people.

And then, and only then, will the war finally end.

--
$
There is no nu-monet there is only Zuul.
$
The Anti-Limerick, by nu-monet:

There was a young man with an orange,
Who kept that there orange for a month,
It didn't turn silver,
It turned kinda purple,
And that there was one spoiled orange.
$
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Subject: Re: Quote of the day
From: John Starrett <jstarret@carbon.cudenver.edu>

They will just kill them.

--
John Starrett
"We have nothing to fear but the scary stuff."
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/microtone.html
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Subject: Re: Quote of the day
From: nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com>

Oh, I'm sure some will be killed. Some will be robbed by
bandits. And some of the refugees will kill and rob some
Afghans. Initially, what "government", "police" and "army"
are there will have to be all UN. The US, Russia, China,
Pakistan (and the other -istans), perhaps India and Iran
even will be the directors; each demanding certain things.

Iran will demand that the Shiite minority be protected in
some way. They will also want for it to be part of any
government.

Pakistan will support other, different local minorities.

India will want it to be non-aggressive and non-aligned
with Pakistan.

China will want it to be a buffer to US and Russian
involvement in their backyard. They also want no traffic
between their Moslem territories and Afghanistan/Pakistan.

Russia and the US are both interested in the (17?) major
oil pipeline projects in the region. They want stability,
but they also might see refugees as a dampening force
between the innumerable factions and hate-filled groups.

The Afghan warlords will be out of business, as nobody on
their turf will even speak their language, but any effort
to organize or ghetto-ize will be countered by the UN.
Their command and control will be in shambles.

The idea is homogeneity, to break up and separate all
factions, religions, languages, and cultures for a minimum
of three generations. Loyalty is only to the State, as
operated by the UN. Those who do not cooperate do not
get food, health care, housing, or education for their
children. Those who play along live well and prosper.
No segregation of any kind.

This technique was used to "break" the Apaches from their
warlike ways. Where guns failed, "welfare" worked.
Before they realized it, the days of raiding parties were
over.

--
$
There is no nu-monet there is only Zuul.
$
The Anti-Limerick, by nu-monet:

Subject: Re: Quote of the day
From: John Starrett <jstarret@carbon.cudenver.edu>

Yes, it makes some kind of sense, but you must know the
Muslim world would never go for it. And we must please the
Muslim world.

--
John Starrett
"We have nothing to fear but the scary stuff."
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/microtone.html
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Subject: Re: Quote of the day
From: nu-monet <nothing@succeeds.com>

Well, yes and yes. What to the west is a unified whole is
actually fractured within. Though there are numerous factions
and sects within Islam, the two main groups are Shiite and
Sunni. Afghanistan is one country split by the two groups,
with the Shiite being the hated minority.

Now Iran has long recognized that this minority will never
*rule* Afghanistan, though it is right next door to Iran,
it is just too small; so optimally, it would like to see
power-sharing with the Sunni majority, so the Shiite aren't
slaughtered.

Ironically, however, the hatreds between the Shiite and the
"radical Sunni" (in this case a faction called the "Wahabbi")
are such that if the situation arose where this Shiite
minority lived in a nation with a non-Moslem majority, the
Iranians might actually think they (the minority Shiites)
were better off! And that is a useful angle.

The irony is that Moslems of all types use the "religious
neutrality" and liberalism of non-Moslem countries to avoid
persecution from each other. I remember back during the
fall of Iran and the subsequent shifts of power, there must
have been eight different exclusive political factions of
just Iranians at our local university. All wrangling with
each other, but separated by the vast number of non-Moslems,
which kept a reasonable peace between them.

So though technically the "new" Afghanistan would remain
Moslem, it would be somewhat like Turkey, "officially"
secular, with an openly secular army. The Moslems would be
more than happy for such a situation. And, to sweeten the
pot, it could be said that eventually, many of the refugees
will prolly convert to Islam anyway. And potential converts
are few and far between these days. What priest would turn
down a potential new flock of sheep to sheer?

FYI: a Shiite web site full of bitter animosity to "Wahabbi"
Sunnis:

http://www.shianews.com/

--
$
There is no nu-monet there is only Zuul.
$
The Anti-Limerick, by nu-monet:

Subject: Re: Quote of the day
From: John Starrett <jstarret@carbon.cudenver.edu>

As I see it, the Afghanis are so possessive of their country
they would never go for such an imposition. Sounds good on
paper, but I just can't see it. A country for refugees is a
good idea though. It used to be the US, but now we are only
taking applications from criminals.

FYE: An instructor in the physics department here is named
Alfred Wahabbi.

--
John Starrett
"We have nothing to fear but the scary stuff."
http://www-math.cudenver.edu/~jstarret/microtone.html
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Subject: Re: Quote of the day
From: joecosby@mindspring.com (Joe Cosby)
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Sat, Dec 15, 2001 6:34 PM
Message-ID: <3c1bddc1.3213229@News.CIS.DFN.DE>

well what you have to remember about dictators is they aren't some
alien force come to oppress the people, usually they are one -of- the
people, and arise from the social system that the people evolve.

The Taliban are/were certainly no exception. They were an organic
outgrowth of Afghan society.

>The world arms industry suffers. No longer convenient
>civil wars to distract the people from the mismanagement
>by their local tyrant. No more scapegoats.
>
>And what of Afghanistan? In a way, something of a
>catharsis for the nation. The tribes that so hated
>each other, the strange languages, customs, religions--
>all swamped by refugees. Everything becomes
>international. Instead of a dozen language, there are
>now a hundred, so all must rely on English and French
>to get by. The police are United Nations, eventually
>training and promoting solely by intelligence and effort.
>Anyone who is smart and works will get ahead.
>
>Ideally, the nation will eventually feed itself, then
>perhaps have an economy that grows and prospers. Maybe
>even a government of *all* the people.
>
>And then, and only then, will the war finally end.
>
>--

--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.home.mindspring.com

On the other hand, you have different fingers.
-- Steven Wright

Sig by Kookie Jar 5.98d http://go.to/generalfrenetics/
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Subject: Re: Quote of the day
From: "nikolai kingsley" <nikolai@broadway.net.au>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Date: Mon, Dec 17, 2001 8:41 AM
Message-ID: <newscache$zrmhog$cff$1@bartleby.maths.monash.edu.au>

> well what you have to remember about dictators is they aren't some
> alien force come to oppress the people, usually they are one -of- the
> people, and arise from the social system that the people evolve.
>
> The Taliban are/were certainly no exception. They were an organic
> outgrowth of Afghan society.

don't ya hate it when your society has an organic outgrowth and you have to
have it removed because everyone thinks it's ugly?

nikolai
---
anaesthetic please!

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Original file name: Quote of the day - converted on Thursday, 20 December 2001, 03:31