From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgeniusNOSPUM.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 30, 2004
From the point of view of some people, Nu-Monet is "some
kind of right
wing nut case" and the Church should not allow
such people -- or, I
presume, anyone else who doesn't think within an approved
preset range
of left-leaning political affiliations.
I quit being a Radical when I had to get a job and become
a daddy, and
now I'm reduced to generally just a Mealy-Mouth Liberal
of a
Patriopsychotic Anarcho-Materialist, the wimpiest "lesser
of two evils"
dupe among anarchists... I admit it... "DON'T BLAME
ME, I VOTED FOR
NADER" was gonna be my bumper sticker... how middle
of the road can you
get...
BUT, I don't think Nu-Monet has been IGNORING some of
the things that
nicer people ignore. I suspect he's been following some
nasty boring
specialty news of military and diplomatic maneuvering
and history that
most of us don't encounter in the magazine rack at the
local health
food store.
Nut job, sure, but Nu-Monet is certainly not any of
those stereotypical
right-winger types that I ever heard of. "Right"
and "Left" mean
different things every few years anyway.
I have been reading the news that Nu-Monet points out,
and his
PatrioPsychotic AnarchoMaterialist analysis of it, through
at least
seven Versions of him now and
HE IS SCARING ME.
Like I said, I have been a nice Mealy Mouth Liberal
for some time, and
yet I think I kinda share Nu-Monet's view of the governments
of the
world as a bunch of sharks. ALL SHARKS and I don't mean
barracudas, I
mean GREAT WHITE SHARKS one and all. THAT'S HOW THEY
GET TO BE
GOVERNMENTS. Or giganto megacompanies, same diff.
What I like about Nu-Monet is that he is not trying
to make the complex
simple, but is confronting the complexity as best he
can. It's more
than I'm willing to do, but at least I'll admit that
much. I consider
the machinations of modern politics and economics to
be of such
fantastic complexity that the whole false front of it
that we see on
the news -- ANY NEWS -- might as well be a fairy tale
that helps keep
the children behaved. There are the nice liberal fairy
tales and the
nice conservative fairy tales. Then there's the fairy
tale that each
PatrioPsychotic AnarchoMaterialist tells itself.
Besides, nobody else besides Nu-Monet took me seriously
about the
underground city full of battling robots and dinosaurs
that STILL
EXISTS beneath Baghdad.
When I go about my day, running errands and doing chores
of our little
anti-establishment, anti-business, anti-art, anti-religion
humorous art
religion business, the world is not a threatening place.
All the
Honkies, Negroes, Beaners, Bohabs, Jews, Jimmies and
Johns, and even
most of the SubGeniuses, appear to get along just fine,
mostly mindful
of their own biz, occasionally maybe dating and having
babies. Not a
threatening world.
The second my attention shifts to World Affairs and
the things learned
indirectly, filtered through The News of any and all
varieties,
suddenly the world is a very threatening place indeed,
and the
possibility of mass destruction EVEN IN IGNOBLE CLEVELAND
seems no
farther away than it did in in the depths of the Cold
War, when I was a
teenager and KNEW the nukes were about to start falling
any minute.
We thought "duck and cover" practice was FUN in second grade.
It's not actually Nu-Monet that scares me, it's the
things he keeps
pointing at that scare me. Actually Nu-Monet does scare
me slightly,
because even though I have hung out with him I still
know very little
about him except that he is a male American of some
kind. PROBABLY FOR
THE BEST that some things remain off my database.
--
4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath
of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected (Rev. Ivan Stang, prop.)
PRABOB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Cosby <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl>
"Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgeniusNOSPUM.com>
wrote:
>From the point of view of some people, Nu-Monet
is "some kind of right
>wing nut case" and the Church should not allow
such people -- or, I
>presume, anyone else who doesn't think within an
approved preset range
>of left-leaning political affiliations.
Fuck that.
To me the worst thing that could happen, to this newsgroup
anyway,
would be if there were any prescribed set of beliefs
that were the
FAQ-Approved opinions for the newsgroup. I watched
one newsgroup go
from being an interesting, open forum to a wasteland
that way, led by
one guy who enforced the "right way of thinking"
and a load of sheep
who followed him.
Everything that gets posted is predictable. The same
old
conversation, over and over and over again.
If alt.slack, or the Church of the Subgenius for that
matter, took on
a more or less explicitly left-wing poltiical leaning,
it would be
boring. Imagine if everybody who posted here were like
Fred Rice.
Those news articles he posts. He rarely even comments
on them, as if
he didn't -need- to comment on them. You are supposed
to -know- what
the right interpretation of it is. God that annoys
the shit out of
me.
At that point it just becomes a dumb-ass cookie-cutter.
It becomes as
stupid as real politics.
The Church probably -could- attract more people by being
more explicit
in what it was for and against. You could probably
make more money.
But they would be little lock-step idiots.
That's why the discordians bore me. At the end of the
day, they are
hardly "discordian" in any real sense. You
know what they're for and
against. It's all politics.
And at that point, you don't have to THINK. And when
people don't
have to think, they don't.
I flame the shit out of nu-monet sometimes when I think
he's wrong,
but having an intelligent advocate of the "other
side" keeps it from
becoming a circle-jerk. If we didn't have that, it
would all be
people sitting in a circle nodding spastically and going
"yup yup,
that's right, that's right".
Although we could always just cross-post to conservative
newsgroups
more.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
Hell, they ought to charge the SHEEP with bestiality.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: bobdiddley@aol.com (Bob Ono)
You two were making me think pretty hard there. If ever
I were to believe in
the idea that the US HAD found WMDs and then suppressed
them, it would be as a
result of nu-monet's argument. Great argument, but somehow,
I still don't buy
it. I don't think the Butch Administration is nearly
as astute as nu-monet.
I wanted to reply, but you and others were doing a better
job of it than I
could, so...
I agree with your posts.
=========================================================
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
- Benjamin Franklin 1759
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "nu-monet v7.0" <nothing@succeeds.com>
Rev. Ivan Stang wrote:
>
> HE IS SCARING ME.
You know that saying, that "Everyone just wants
to
be loved?"
Well, not everyone.
And the very thought that somewhere out there, there
is someone who doesn't want to be loved, or even
liked, is very scary to some people.
Like men with beards are supposed to scare little
babies, instinctually. Because somewhere in their
little developmentally reptilian brains they know
that mommies don't have beards, and daddies do, and
daddy is just as likely to bash their little brains
out on a big rock as not, something which mommy is
far less likely to do, except in Texas.
And all because he has a beard. You bearded baby
killing fiend, you.
So you shouldn't trust men with beards. Or women
with beards, for that matter. Or women at all.
Don't ever trust women. Where was I?
So baby cries. And new fathers shave after a time
or two of making baby cry, unless they like having
their little brains bashed out on a big rock by
mommy, and thus the life cycle is complete.
But back to not caring if you are liked or loved.
The assumption is that if you are one of these few
people, you are evil. Well, since evil is a very
relativistic concept, I suppose that is true, just
by being defined as evil by someone else. Like all
Xtians are evil to Moslems and all Moslems are
evil to Xtians, and Buddhists have to be evil,
because they shave their heads like bad guys, not
just their beards. And Jews have beards, so
everybody thinks they're evil. Actually, much of
history can be explained in this way.
But you don't actually have to *do* anything to be
evil, other than "not care."
So you are evil by omission, rather than commission.
Unless you are a commissioned evil, many of whom are
well known to the enlisted ranks.
But scaring people, by not caring if you are liked
or loved, and thus by being evil, is easy. Everybody
gives you pointers in how to be *more* evil, by
making you care less and less what they think, by
being dumbasses. Especially when discussing politics.
So ironically, being scared of someone who doesn't
care if they are liked or loved tends to make them
*not* want to be liked or loved *even more*, and thus
raises their e.q. or evil quotient considerably.
By now, I have an e.q. in the four digits.
And I think this says a lot more about everybody else
than it does about me.
--
"I'd just like to say I'm sailing with the Rock
and I'll be back like Independence Day with Jesus,
June 6, like the movie, big mothership and all.
I'll be back."
--Executed Serial killer Aileen Wuornos
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Rev. Ivan Stang" <stang@subgeniusNOSPUM.com>
Gosh, I hope you finished reading the rest of my rant
after that one
line. It had a punchline after a fashion, whereby I
was actually scared
of what you were talking about, not YOU really. Although
I now I'm
thinking maybe it IS you I should be scared of. I don't
trust guys
without beards.
--
4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath
of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected (Rev. Ivan Stang, prop.)
PRABOB
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "iDRMRSR" <idrmrsr@subgenius.com>
Hee, Hee, that's what I like most about Subs. The darn balance of it all.
True, we have our white wine liberals, our radical liberals,
and so on. But
then you kind of sit at the center (this is meant out
of absolute respect),
and Nu kind of holds up the Right, or at least the part
of the Right dealing
with war "stuff".
Then, there is me, a born and bred genetic John Bircher,
whose life has been
shaped by nothing but Republican Conservatives (give
up the Republican if
necessary, too). Yes, I'm actually a knee jerk conservative,
if there ever
was such a thing. I do not require facts of any sort
to back up my
opinions, either, for being Right means always being
right and knowing right
from left, or wrong, as I was raised.
I had to wait until I was 21 to vote for George Wallace
for president back
in 1972. From my position, Bush is three millimeters
(no more) to the right
of Kerry, virtually indistinguishable when viewed from
my customary extreme
angle.
Central to my beliefs are thing's like states rights,
the actual
Constitution (which includes safety measures like the
Electoral College),
and the functioning of government. For example, I go
to bed knowing that it
is impossible for Bush or Cheney to do exactly as they
please, because of
that little problem we have in this country of getting
half the senate and
half the congress together on an issue. Thus it's tough
to blame these two
individuals for anything.
It's a big Conspiracy, too big for one or two bosses
alone to line their
pockets. Unless they happen to line a lot of other
pockets on the way. And
knowing human nature, by the time the lowest functionaries
get on board the
Big Plan, dammit, they've muddled it all up with local
and internicine crap
and what comes out the bottom is no where near what
went in the top. And
unless some major change in gummint has occurred, the
constitution requires
that process to go forth before any "plot"
can be hatched.
I'll even give you that if Kerry wins, there won't be
any move in the health
plan area, our schools won't be gleaming and new, and
no more than a small
handful of people will wind up with jobs any better
than they have. He
can't make that much of a difference. Look at his predecessor.
Have you
got a health insurance card in your wallet yet, like
the one he mocked up in
his early reign? Of course not.
This country is mostly made up of Ferengi, is why.
The real conservative wishes to make this entire flabby
machine less
intrusive and far more efficient. Normally that's done
by starving the
glutton of tax money. Except in matters of national
defense.
I'm not about to take up arms and rout out the bearded
evil barbarians from
the Middle East. You'd be fucking surprised at just
how much I would be
willing to PAY somebody to do that for me, too.
Just put a fence around us, and LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE!
That's all I ask
of my government. We're Americans, at least we used
to be, and we can
figure the rest of the fucking shit out for ourselves
at far less expense.
Judging by the local Cleveland scene, I would think
Kerry has this state
sewn up nicely already, just by the preponderance of
Kerry Bumper Stickers I
see driving to work. I'm a little scared in that regard.
However, Praise Bob, I know that for every Democrat
in northern Ohio, there
are two Republicans thumping the Bible downstate, and
they vote the HELL out
of presidential elections. Mebbe all is not lost after
all.
[*]
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "nu-monet v7.0" <nothing@succeeds.com>
Rev. Ivan Stang wrote:
> Gosh, I hope you finished reading the rest
> of my rant after that one line. It had a
> punchline after a fashion, whereby I was
> actually scared of what you were talking
> about, not YOU really. Although I now I'm
> thinking maybe it IS you I should be scared
> of. I don't trust guys without beards.
I think it is far better to fear *me* than what
I talk about. Sure, we all live under the threat
of nuclear war and all the other horrible, awful,
complicated and like-unto-algebra things that could
destroy all life on Earth, but HOW DOES THAT COMPARE
to my leering, grinning negative waves? Now *that's*
scary! Boogabooga.
Besides, I only wear a beard when I seek to scare
people who fret about other people not liking them
or loving them so much that they poop themselves
and then die out of pure self-deprecation and
feelings of unworthiness. And self-defecation.
The only time that was appropriate was when I was
substitute teaching at a high school. I looked
like Satan's brother in law. The regular teachers
liked me a LOT, and I kept getting invited back.
It was a goatee. Many of the enemy died.
--
"YOU BELONG TO US NOW!"
"GET DOWN WITH MY SICKNESS!!"
--Kino Beman, brand name
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "iDRMRSR" <idrmrsr@subgenius.com>
NU:
>>The only time that was appropriate was when
I was
substitute teaching at a high school.
I'm trying to get my brane around that one, and I've met you in person.
I can't fathom exactly what you might be a suitable
substitute FOR. Unless
it was possibly one of your other previous manifestations.
Being unique is such a burden!
[*]
-----
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "nu-monet v7.0" <nothing@succeeds.com>
iDRMRSR wrote:
> I can't fathom exactly what you might
> be a suitable substitute FOR.
Well, one teacher ditched the day he was supposed
to teach his class about venereal diseases.
How would you like to learn the *real truth* of
venereal diseases, from *me*?
I bet the little bastards are still thanking me.
--
"HERE LIES NU-MONET.
GOT TRIPLE HIS MONEY BACK."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Cosby <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl>
"nu-monet v7.0" <nothing@succeeds.com>
wrote:
>nenslo wrote:
>>
>> He simply ignores actual demonstrable facts
>> which don't match up with the imaginary and
>> nonexistent things he wishes were real.
>
>I must have rhetorically kicked you in the nuts
>real hard for you to feel the need to attack me
>in two different posts in the same thread.
>
>Feeling defeated *and* thinking Yuppie chow is
>better than real food. You poor thing.
He was right and you were wrong and nenslo being nenslo,
he's rubbing
it in.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
I always say I'd much rather be around someone who comes
right out and
admits he's a hateful intolerant son of a bitch than
someone who's
always calling people down for not coming up to their
noble standards
while pretending it's for everybody's benefit.
- nenslo
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Mister Nu-Monet Is Scaring Me
From: "nu-monet v7.0" <nothing@succeeds.com>
Newsgroups: alt.slack
Reply-To: like.excess@sex.org
Date: Sat, Jul 31, 2004 2:43 PM
Message-ID: <410BE863.1C05@succeeds.com>
Joe Cosby wrote:
>
> He was right and you were wrong and nenslo
> being nenslo, he's rubbing it in.
That's a logical fallacy:
If Geeks are men,
then all men are Geeks,
and nenslo is nenslo.
Are we not men? We are nenslo.
-- Testikles, Geek Philosopher
--
I don't know what you're talking about.
I've never met you before in my life.
That story sounds like utter bullshit.
I wasn't there and it wasn't me.
I am *not* in denial. Shut up.
--nu-monet
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
>If Geeks are men,
>then all men are Geeks,
>and nenslo is nenslo.
>Are we not men? We are nenslo.
>
> -- Testikles, Geek Philosopher
>
I was wondering where Devo got that song from.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Cosby <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl>
Ah, but -there- is exactly the problem. People ASSUME
that whether
what they say is right or wrong depends on whether it
is logical or
not. But is it? Try this: prove logically that it
is logical to
prove anything, including the proof you are constructing.
See what I
mean? ANY logical statement is, therefore, a logical
fallacy. The
Greeks wasted millions of years on logic, which they
could more
profitably have spent discovering nuclear weapons so
they wouldn't
lose their empire.
No the REALITY is, each human being is filled with swarms
of small,
invisible fairy-like creatures, Right Fairies and Wrong
Fairies.
Whether a statement is right of wrong simply depends
on the balance of
fairies, or BOF in your body at that moment. For instance,
have you
ever noticed that after an intense orgasm, something
which SEEMED
right can seem wrong, or vice-versa? Some people miss
this, because
it is usually associated with what they are thinking
about at the
time. For instance, -before- the orgasm you might be
thinking "I love
this woman desperately, I want to bear her children,
I want to settle
down in a white pickle cottage and cook muffins for
the rest of my
life with THIS WOMAN" and then immediately AFTER
you are thinking
"damn, I wonder how soon I can get the fuck out
of here without
pissing her off?"
Don't you see it? WHICH STATEMENT IS TRUE? When you
think about it,
obviously it DEPENDS. A statement which was true at
one moment is
wrong at another moment. So, "logical proof",
which would tell you
one statement either IS true or ISN'T, would be WRONG.
What's actually happened is that you have blown large
numbers of
fairies out of your etheric body during the orgasm,
along with things
like etheric chewing gum wrappers and etheric parking
tickets (which
is why people who have a lot of sex rarely -need- to
pay their parking
tickets). This has changed the BOF and so a statement
which was true
is now false.
The truth is evasive. Thousands of years of philosophy
can be
well-meaning but wind up miles from the real truth.
"Bob" taught me
all this in a dream.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
Tiny purple fishes
run laughing through your fingers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
Joe Cosby wrote:
>That's a logical fallacy:
>>
>>If Geeks are men,
>>then all men are Geeks,
>>and nenslo is nenslo.
>>Are we not men? We are nenslo.
>>
>> -- Testikles, Geek Philosopher
>Ah, but -there- is exactly the problem. People
ASSUME that whether
>what they say is right or wrong depends on whether
it is logical or
>not.
Only semi-stupid people. Semi-stupid people believe
in the superiority of
logic. Stupid people can't fathom logic at all. The
world is made of stupid
and semi-stupid people.
This makes it hard to have conversations at McDonalds.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Cardinal Vertigo <vertigo@alexandria.cc>
And on Usenet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Cosby <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl>
Debating on Usenet tends to be futile. It always seems
to go the same
way; first, the other preson decides which "team"
you're on, and if
you're on the "other team" then absolutely
everything you say is wrong
and they will go on arguing, regardless of whether they
are really
making sense or not, forever.
Not just the "can atheists be destructive"
argument I was just in,
although that's a textbook-perfect example of it. I
see the same
thing everywhere I go on Usenet. Someone can be making
absolutely no
sense whatsoever, patently so, and go on arguing forever.
I got very tired of it. I really -like- arguing logically,
and I like
exploring ideas that require a little debate, stuff
like religion and
reality. To me that's interesting. I'm like that in
real life too,
small talk bores me to death. I think I am capable
of admitting when
I am wrong, which is an important part of any debate.
But I just got sick to death of trying to do it on Usenet.
Usually,
anything I post I have really looked at quite deeply
logically.
Serious posts, anyway. To me the cheap, often dishonest,
obfuscatory
and intentionally misleading arguments people resort
to when their
preferred belief is threatened is just maddening. And
the fact that
it WORKS is that much more maddening.
I used to think that in a text forum, people would tend
to be more
logical, that lacking emotional influences they would
just deal with
thoughts as thoughts.
But it doesn't work out that way. People have spent
their whole lives
building up an emotional need for whatever idea. You
might as well be
trying to talk a kamikaze pilot into spitting on a picture
of the
Emperor.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
The only difference between surreal and hellish is in
the latter you
wake up, but it's still surreal.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Cosby <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl>
kdetal@aol.com (KD et al) wrote:
>Joe Cosby wrote:
>
>>That's a logical fallacy:
>>>
>>>If Geeks are men,
>>>then all men are Geeks,
>>>and nenslo is nenslo.
>>>Are we not men? We are nenslo.
>>>
>>> -- Testikles, Geek Philosopher
>
>>Ah, but -there- is exactly the problem. People
ASSUME that whether
>>what they say is right or wrong depends on whether
it is logical or
>>not.
>
>Only semi-stupid people. Semi-stupid people believe
in the superiority of
>logic. Stupid people can't fathom logic at all.
The world is made of stupid
>and semi-stupid people.
>
>This makes it hard to have conversations at McDonalds.
But -nobody- can be completely -not- stupid all the
time. But it -is-
possible to be completely stupid -all- the time. So
who are the only
people who can be ABSOLUTELY right? PRAISE "BOB"!
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
"NOT ONE RED CENT FOR ENTROPY!"
- ggg
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Cosby <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl>
kdetal@aol.com (KD et al) wrote:
>This makes it hard to have conversations at McDonalds.
I don't know if it's so much people being stupid or
not, as much as
their having their whole self-image wrapped up in one
point or
another.
I mean you take a Christian on Usenet and try to debate
them. They
have built their whole life around their religion.
When they look out
at the world, they see a Christian world. How they
raise their family
and approach their job and wipe their ass, every detail
of their life
is wrapped up around Christianity. It's what's REAL.
People will quickly jettison logic when their self-image
is
threatened. It starts to trigger survival responses.
You can tell,
when people are getting more irrational, they tend to
get very
combative and aggressive.
It's no different for a card-carrying atheist. Their
whole way of
looking at the world is based on it. They cease to
be logical as
quickly as religious people.
The core stupidity, IMO, is being stupid enough to define
yourself in
terms of what team you're on. Once you let that little
bit of pink
con brainwashing sink in, you belong to them.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
"If you ever fall off of the Sears Tower, I think
a smart thing to
do would be to let your arms and legs go really limp.
That way people
on the ground would think you were a dummy and try to
catch you, because
hey, free dummy!" -- Jack Handey
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: kdetal@aol.com (KD et al)
>Joe Cosby wrote:
>>>That's a logical fallacy:
>>>>
>>>>If Geeks are men,
>>>>then all men are Geeks,
>>>>and nenslo is nenslo.
>>>>Are we not men? We are nenslo.
>>>>
>>>> -- Testikles, Geek Philosopher
>>
>>>Ah, but -there- is exactly the problem.
People ASSUME that whether
>>>what they say is right or wrong depends
on whether it is logical or
>>>not.
>>
>>Only semi-stupid people. Semi-stupid people
believe in the superiority of
>>logic. Stupid people can't fathom logic at
all. The world is made of stupid
>>and semi-stupid people.
>>
>>This makes it hard to have conversations at
McDonalds.
>
>I don't know if it's so much people being stupid
or not, as much as
>their having their whole self-image wrapped up in
one point or
>another.
>
>I mean you take a Christian on Usenet and try to
debate them. They
>have built their whole life around their religion.
When they look out
>at the world, they see a Christian world. How they
raise their family
>and approach their job and wipe their ass, every
detail of their life
>is wrapped up around Christianity. It's what's
REAL.
>
>People will quickly jettison logic when their self-image
is
>threatened. It starts to trigger survival responses.
You can tell,
>when people are getting more irrational, they tend
to get very
>combative and aggressive.
>
>It's no different for a card-carrying atheist.
Their whole way of
>looking at the world is based on it. They cease
to be logical as
>quickly as religious people.
>
>The core stupidity, IMO, is being stupid enough
to define yourself in
>terms of what team you're on. Once you let that
little bit of pink
>con brainwashing sink in, you belong to them.
There are teams? No one told me!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joe Cosby <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl>
And you're on the Subgenius one.
Doesn't that SUCK?
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
In the room the women come and go
Singing of great Pinocchio
Original file name: Mister Nu-Monet Is S#1AD095.txt - converted on Saturday, 25 September 2004, 02:05
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